Kind of the key to staying put as well, doncha' think?Quote:
Originally Posted by Iris lily
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Kind of the key to staying put as well, doncha' think?Quote:
Originally Posted by Iris lily
Farmer: "I'm cutting back on watering my plants. They need to learn how to grow on their own."
I think the only other country that believes officially that starving makes anything grow stronger is North Korea. Seriously, does this make sense to people?
You don't make a chair smaller by cutting one leg. Sure, that qualifies in technical terms, but it really only makes the chair unusable. So what is the point of doing it? Health care reform has to mean more than just whacking seniors and the disabled with "vouchers" for private insurance that no company will want to offer. We must include tort reform, so no jury goes on a bender awarding ridiculous financial damages to people when doctors guess wrong. We must include a review of the regulations in the health care industry to understand if the cost of compliance (which we all pay for once the service or product is offered) is worth what we're spending on it.
And we must have a frank realistic discussion of Plan B. So Medicare goes to vouchers and those vouchers will not pay for insurance or treatment for a senior's illness. Then what? Should they run a Kickstarter campaign? Pass the hat at the shopping mall? Turn to palliative care and all the morphine the senior can consume until it's time for him or her to go? What can or should be done about the lack of universal preventive care in the U.S.? Don't worry about it until the high blood pressure causes a stroke? Then what? Who cares for a stroke victim who cannot function by himself/herself? Family? In a two-wage-earner family and with the increasing amount of lower-paid service jobs, where is the money for that? Should we take a functional person out of the workforce (dinging our consumer-driven economy)? Ship the stroke victim off to a nursing home (which gets paid ... how?)?
It's very easy for people of means and opportunity -- who, typically, have not been subject to discrimination beyond being "too young" and who have not yet had the pleasure of joining the "sandwich generation" -- to declare that they don't need help and to not understand why others would, either. I'm not pointing fingers at people in this forum; I have no idea of age, ethnicity, or financial means unless people volunteer it and I can't assume. I just find it interesting that the people making the most noise about not having government do certain things are either the Romneys and Limbaughs and Kochs of the world who have theirs and then some, or the Bachmanns and Ryans and and Boehners who merely spread hypocrisy discussing why government should do less even though feeding at the public trough is about the only career they've ever had.
Basically, they'll do what everyone else without insurance does - when it's bad enough, go to the ER. And the costs will be recouped from paying customers. Which will quickly make it unaffordable for businesses to offer healthcare insurance as a benefit, and make healthcare costs rise much faster than those vouchers will be allowed to.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinMN
And the only fix for this would be to repeal the ER mandate and just let those who can't pay die in the streets.
Or starting up some kind of business, which makes getting permanent residency much easier in many of the countries I am considering, and with much less money than you would need to get into a first world country. Or taking an online business of some kind with you, already established and up and running.....There is more than one way to accomplish getting out Iris.....RobQuote:
Originally Posted by Iris lily
And this is one of the big reasons I want out of the United States - I don't have any faith or trust that the ER mandate won't be repealed and I don't want to die so that the 1% can continue to be so wealthy. America is not worth this to me - nor is any other country, for that matter. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by creaker
Just out of curiosity, what keeps you here now?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
Basically family, some debts I want to get paid off before I leave (I want to leave cleanly and ethically), and finishing selling off my clutter and some loose odds and ends. Also I am going to be the executor of an estate when a friend of our family passes on - if it is fairly soon - and I don't want to just waltz off on this - unless things get much worse in a hurry. The family involved has been very good to my mom and I don't want to just walk off on them like I said - but maybe a lot of this could be done via the Internet and Skype though? Something to think about.....RobQuote:
Originally Posted by Alan
I reallly wonder.....And I know this sounds like a radical idea to some.....Why doesn't the US government consider giving buyouts to those willing to leave to get us off future Medicare and Social Security rolls? I would leap pretty fast as this point depending on the amount involved.....I am aware that perhaps at this point not many would but if things continue to deteriorate, this could be a viable option for some, I think....Although not very good PR, just think of the International headlines, Americans offered lump sum to get lost or something along those lines.....I guess this idea is not going to happen soon if at all. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by creaker
I think that would stir up a great big old pot of love it or leave it, don't let the door hit you in the ass patriotism. In truth Rob I would probably feel some of that myself. I know what you're saying and on the surface it makes some sense, but paying anyone to leave is not something I can see getting any popular support at all. I'm guessing a little bit here, but I think a whole lot of Americans would feel that we should all stick it out together and keep working to find solutions. If you want to leave before then, fine, but don't be sticking your hand out as you leave if you're not going to be here through the hard part. And if you leave you needn't bother keeping that US passport, either. But that's just a guess...Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
I think you're more than likely right, that among many this kind of patriotism would be stirred up. Amazing to me. I only meant this as an idea to get some folks off the entitlement rolls - win for the US - and for those who are interested, a new life elsewhere - a potential win for such folks. And yes I would agree if such money were ever handed out, turning in the passport is fair, I don't have a problem with that. I think I have a different view of citizenship/nationality/loyalty to any one country as I was raised to believe that citizenship boils down to what's the tax rate, does it include socialized medicine, and essentially, how equitable is society as a whole? Different from how many are raised, I'll grant that. Mostly I was raised by a single mother whose first memory was the Americans and British bombing her city every night - she was born in Salzburg, Austria, in 1942. Her first memory is off people screaming because the bomb sirens were going off and bombs were going off not far away and she had not yet made it to the bomb shelter under her apartment building. Kind of makes you think of things very differently I think and I feel blessed that I don't view these issues the way most do. But that's my take on it and I realize that this is controversial to many. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by Gregg