Obamacare, or, I might be up a creek w/o a paddle

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Originally Posted by Miss Cellane

Well, waiting with bated breath for the reveal tomorrow of my insurance options. Un-or-underemployed for the last 5 years. Currently working a long-term temp job. Just got a letter from the temp agency to let me know I can't get their insurance. But in spite of that, they are legally obligated to send me all the information on their policies. Oh, yea!

Read in the paper today that only one insurance company was willing to provide the low-cost insurance options for my state. So bye-bye any semblance of choice in purchasing insurance. Also that this one company was unwilling to partner with all the hospitals in the state. I guess I am lucky that they were willing to deal with the hospital in my city. Otherwise, based on the list of available hospitals, I'd have had to drive 45 minutes or more. Not sure yet on which doctors will be accepting this insurance. Hope there's someone within 30 or so miles. For people who don't have transportation, this could be a serious problem.

The big question for me is if I will be able to afford even the lowest-cost option. If I can't, I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

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If I remember correctly, you are in New Hampshire, right? (I lived the first ten years of my life in Sandown, not too far from the Mass. state line). I think I remember that NH was taking some time to decide if it wanted to expand Medicaid? If they have, and your income in under 15 something K, then you qualify for Medicaid. If your income is over but still not all that hot, then you should qualify for some pretty good subsidies from the government - wait until tomorrow and see how it works for you. I do think that since NH is so small and not heavily urbanized that it might not have the competition that I have in Arizona......hang in there, tomorrow you find out and I wish you the best. Rob

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Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

Yea those countries have good systems to some degree whereas at the best the people I care about will be left with garbage Medicaid, which like I said almost no doctors are even taking.

Those I care about that I worry about: smoke a pack a day, does nothing all day most days but sit in front of the t.v., eat nothing but junk food, avoid vegetables like the plague, take a dozen pharma pills a day that I'm sure is making them sicker and sicker, and have worse and worse health reports everytime they go to the doctor and they are in their early 30s, wont' get therapy either (though I guess I could make the offer to pay for it). Do I worry they will have health problems? I know it, it's pretty much inevitable. Dead in 10 years, it wouldn't surprise me AT ALL, that's a funeral I would not be surprised to attend. But not only will they not change their health behaviors they also won't ever get a job, have NEVER held a job of ANY sort, won't ever think about working even, don't even have the dignity of being full time students or aspiring musicians or vagabonds or something (it's literally spending one's entire life in front of the t.v.). So .... noone is that deep pockets richy rich to support them long term and they bring in no income, so the only healthcare they can qualify for is subsidized is garbage California medicaid that's complete garbage (they have private coverage now paid for by others of course). Do I know someday someone will probably be left with a big bill for them that can never be paid? Probably. Would there be some advantage to a real healthcare system (not utter and complete corporate garbage like the ACA so I wouldn't have to worry about it personally). Yes!!! I don't actually support them financially, In my dreams I tell them to "F off" and then discuss how justified I am, and I probably would be, but even in my dreams my heart splits in two. I have tried to save them a 1000 times. I can not but will probably keep trying. But yes it's not really fair for family members to bear the burden of BAD family members who are only capable of self-destruction 24/7 (it's really when the truth is told not our fault we were born into rotten families).

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THEM? Them? Really? These are family members? How many? How many family members do you have that fit this profile? 3? 5? 10? 100? Is it a commune of family members who do nothing but sit around watching TV, eating junk food and avoiding sunlight like vampires? Maybe it's like a small village of ding dong eating, jelly like Jabba the Huts with pasty rubber skin as pale as the moon, due to THEIR slovenly loser, 'gonna die in a year and I don't care' lives.
Wow! What a crappy family you must have to have enough pasty faced in-breds to be able to declare the ACA a total loss for the whole of America based on the obviously large (huge!) number of total losers in your family.

On the other hand, if you are 'going on' about one, or maybe two slackers who don't exactly fit YOUR opinion of 'how folks should live', then maybe you, and many here, should just calm down, take a breath, and see how it goes.

See, what you, and most of the 'compassionate conservatives' (cough..yeah, right) fail to realize, or maybe DO realize but don't want the lesser informed to realize, is that you, and I and all us tax-paying 'Mericans WERE ALREADY PAYING FOR THESE PEOPLE. Yeah, that's right. We paid. In higher premiums, in higher medical costs, and in higher taxes. Unless of course you were one of those, like some, who could actually afford health care, but chose simply to, oh I don't know, gas up the boat, instead of getting it, knowing full well they wouldn't be turned away when THEY, or a loved one, needed it.

With Obamacare, most will pay at least something, even if it is a small bit. But, like most dreams in America, it builds on the promise that someday you too will be rich and successful and able to give a bit more, a hand up if you will, just as someone gave you a hand up when you were young and poor. Kind of how SS works. We pay in when we are young and able to work cause we will all be old and unable to work someday. All of us. Every one of us. And every one of us will have increasing health issues...and yes, even those of us who arrogantly chided others for their ding dongs while we chomped our wheat grass. Everyone will get old. And if you don't, then you probably cost even more with your car accident/cancer/gun fight, or whatever caused you to not grow old.

It's a pretty simple principle really. But it's one you won't understand unless you really understand what it means to live in a united society. It's not a straight line. The country is not run by, owned, or for 30-somethings. You are born helpless, in need of care, and chances are you will die fairly helpless (unable to work a hard 40 hour week, or simply 'rub dirt' into what dings you might have) and in need of care.
Hopefully at both ends your family is there to help you, but sometimes, often, they need help. They can't offer neo-natal support in the kitchen, or hip replacement behind the shed. Why is this such a hard concept? And what makes the far right so blind to this simple truth? How many republicans voted against Sandy relief, yet find it appalling that anyone would question THEIR disaster relief? Have we really come to this? Are we really nothing more than Every man for Himself?

I've been trying to avoid these forums lately, and this thread is a perfect example why. The greed and selfishness displayed here is appalling. Someone comes here, in a bit of a panic, asking for advise, and all they get is misinformation, and dire 'warnings' about lazy slackers robbing them of their hard earned pay with their fake heart attacks and well deserved fatal illnesses brought on by life choices (cause, you know, cancer/brain tumors/birth defects/being shot by a neighborhood watch 'hero' is always a choice)
A few here have tried to dispel the false information, but their voices are drowned out by arrogant pronouncements of 'I don't need it or want it, therefore no one needs it or wants it'.
Such self centered arrogance. Not surprising, but disappointing just the same.

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Originally Posted by peggy

THEM? Them? Really? These are family members? How many? How many family members do you have that fit this profile? 3? 5? 10? 100? Is it a commune of family members who do nothing but sit around watching TV, eating junk food and avoiding sunlight like vampires? Maybe it's like a small village of ding dong eating, jelly like Jabba the Huts with pasty rubber skin as pale as the moon, due to THEIR slovenly loser, 'gonna die in a year and I don't care' lives.
Wow! What a crappy family you must have to have enough pasty faced in-breds to be able to declare the ACA a total loss for the whole of America based on the obviously large (huge!) number of total losers in your family.

On the other hand, if you are 'going on' about one, or maybe two slackers who don't exactly fit YOUR opinion of 'how folks should live', then maybe you, and many here, should just calm down, take a breath, and see how it goes.

See, what you, and most of the 'compassionate conservatives' (cough..yeah, right) fail to realize, or maybe DO realize but don't want the lesser informed to realize, is that you, and I and all us tax-paying 'Mericans WERE ALREADY PAYING FOR THESE PEOPLE. Yeah, that's right. We paid. In higher premiums, in higher medical costs, and in higher taxes. Unless of course you were one of those, like some, who could actually afford health care, but chose simply to, oh I don't know, gas up the boat, instead of getting it, knowing full well they wouldn't be turned away when THEY, or a loved one, needed it.

With Obamacare, most will pay at least something, even if it is a small bit. But, like most dreams in America, it builds on the promise that someday you too will be rich and successful and able to give a bit more, a hand up if you will, just as someone gave you a hand up when you were young and poor. Kind of how SS works. We pay in when we are young and able to work cause we will all be old and unable to work someday. All of us. Every one of us. And every one of us will have increasing health issues...and yes, even those of us who arrogantly chided others for their ding dongs while we chomped our wheat grass. Everyone will get old. And if you don't, then you probably cost even more with your car accident/cancer/gun fight, or whatever caused you to not grow old.

It's a pretty simple principle really. But it's one you won't understand unless you really understand what it means to live in a united society. It's not a straight line. The country is not run by, owned, or for 30-somethings. You are born helpless, in need of care, and chances are you will die fairly helpless (unable to work a hard 40 hour week, or simply 'rub dirt' into what dings you might have) and in need of care.
Hopefully at both ends your family is there to help you, but sometimes, often, they need help. They can't offer neo-natal support in the kitchen, or hip replacement behind the shed. Why is this such a hard concept? And what makes the far right so blind to this simple truth? How many republicans voted against Sandy relief, yet find it appalling that anyone would question THEIR disaster relief? Have we really come to this? Are we really nothing more than Every man for Himself?

I've been trying to avoid these forums lately, and this thread is a perfect example why. The greed and selfishness displayed here is appalling. Someone comes here, in a bit of a panic, asking for advise, and all they get is misinformation, and dire 'warnings' about lazy slackers robbing them of their hard earned pay with their fake heart attacks and well deserved fatal illnesses brought on by life choices (cause, you know, cancer/brain tumors/birth defects/being shot by a neighborhood watch 'hero' is always a choice)
A few here have tried to dispel the false information, but their voices are drowned out by arrogant pronouncements of 'I don't need it or want it, therefore no one needs it or wants it'.
Such self centered arrogance. Not surprising, but disappointing just the same.

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Gotta say you raise good points here Peggy. I myself am amazed at some of what is posted here and how it comes across as every person for themselves. I try to tell myself that such people have known economic stability and that they have never had reason to fear the United States and what it is all about - but sometimes it's just hard for me to accept it, period. I am not an evil person but sometimes I do have a dark side and I wish such people some economic challenges in which they learn about my America - but OTOH I also know that my America is sifting upwards these days. I'm guessing there's a lot of denial and debt going on out there to keep up appearances.

But I have some hope. A couple of weeks ago I was taking my mom's cat to the vet for her, and I overheard a group of young vet techs candidly discussing which country they wanted to immigrate to - I was happy that the vet tech that dealt with my mom's cat said and I quote verbatim - "there's really no reason to stay in America anymore, if you do, what's in it for you?" That gave me so so so much hope. Of course this is just an isolated incident but if there are these few young people talking reality there must be more elsewhere. So there is some common sense and hope out there. I try to remember that.

I just looked up yahoo.com news and I see that the deadline has been reached and a shutdown is indeed taking place. Amazing to me. My takeaway from this is that the Republicans could care less about human life as they are trying very tenaciously to block legislation that would cover more citizens with health insurance. I see this as proof that many Americans just don't care about human life or other people and I don't know that I will ever forgive or forget this - regardless of what happens next. But there also those who support Obama, who support the ACA, that are fighting for the right to have the human dignity that health insurance offers. And there are those who are young who are reevaluating if remaining in America is a viable choice for the future. I do draw hope from such.

Rob

The advice part was to research the options more (by going on the exchanges, by talking to "navigators", whatever), that's the best possible advice anyone can give unless they are expert in the subject. Do research before catastrophizing. Not because laws or never unfair or because they might not get screwed (because I hold no such grand overarching beliefs about the infinite wisdom of the laws and the government or anything - my worldview doesn't require me to) but merely for the rational reason that nothing can be known with inadequate information!

That laws can be tough to navigate and adequate information difficult to find, I know. The advice was given very early on, I said these exact things, 9 pages on yea discussions turn to politics (and not by me - people post pages and pages of political stuff, making the whole thread about their politics which is always the same rant, and then object when anyone else becomes political in it), but the advise was: do the research. It's the best, most rational advise I know how to give. But then I don't consider my job to be some grand expert on Obamacare dispelling misinformation (my heavens, what would my qualifications be for that? what are anyones? reading some biased propaganda?), that's why I point to places were information might *actually* be found (ie go on the exchanges, talk to the navigators even if they aren't very good, and yea talk to the health insurance company and the employer as well, sure maybe even a CPA or a financial adviser might help although I'm not sure how qualified they are for that either).

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

... My takeaway from this is that the Republicans could care less about human life as they are trying very tenaciously to block legislation that would cover more citizens with health insurance...

Rob

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Let's see, the President and his minions have already pushed off several provisions of the law, delaying what he wanted to put into place, and now he won't compromise and push off on the individual mandate. He's offered a compromise and he's not having any of it.

Who is it that isn't compromising these days?

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

Let's see, the President and his minions have already pushed off several provisions of the law, delaying what he wanted to put into place, and now he won't compromise and push off on the individual mandate. He's offered a compromise and he's not having any of it.

Who is it that isn't compromising these days?

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To me compromise means give a little, get a little. Obama has already given a little - he has granted a one year delay in part of ObamaCare. It is now time for the Republicans to give a little and they refuse to and would rather shut down the government. I think right now Conservatives are showing their true colors as to how little human life means to them and how little even this country means to them - they are all about the dollar. And I'm not saying the Dems are all that different - their one difference is that they will throw bones out to the downtrodden. And in this country, that's the most one can hope for these days in a lot of cases. Rob

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I think right now Conservatives are showing their true colors as to how little human life means to them and how little even this country means to them - they are all about the dollar. And I'm not saying the Dems are all that different - their one difference is that they will throw bones out to the downtrodden.

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then why use such strong words if really "they're mostly all the same anyway". Unless the critique is much broader aka "the rulers/the ruling class/those in power don't care about human life". For me showing how little one cares about human life is shown by having an assassination program. end. full stop. nothing more to say.

But the budget that's a whole nuttiness of it's own and the Republicans do mostly own that.

So, a couple of weeks ago, I looked online on some various sites and compared prices of insuring my family.

I was basically looking for as good or better than what we had when DH last worked in a company -- for which we contributed $280/mo -- the company apparently paid the rest -- and it wasn't a plan of our choosing, with a terrible network (we went to an out of network doctor and paid $75 per appointment), and basically was a PITA to use (ie, try getting your free bi-annual physical, I dare ya! Yeah, definitely get your teeth cleaned and checked once a year! do that!).

So, anyhoot, found a better-than-we-had aetna (nice network!) coverage for $335. Not too shabby, considering the coverage was better (ie, $5k family deductible instead of $10k, great dental coverage, better catastrophic injury and disease coverage, etc).

Then, you know, today -- day one of the exchange being open -- I first went to try the exchange but I think the web site was running a bit slow because of load or something. So, went back to my other web sites to see what deals I might get just on the regular market.

Same aetna coverage -- $270. Heh. Winning!

I've been paying $300 a month for just myself. Oh the glories of employer provided insurance.

peggy, no matter where you go this is the discourse about the ACA.

I prefer to believe that it is fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of inadequate government, created by the media, fear of others again created by our media, fear of change. My assumptions may not be true but it helps me keep some equilibrium in this whole mess.

Most of the decisions we made over our career were about not losing health insurance and retirement. I remember decades ago telling other women that they had to consider protecting themselves since "spouses" were not in the same class as employees when it came to retiree health care. I was considered crazy. I also told them to be aware that their jobs could be done anywhere there was a phone and they needed to make sure they showed they were needed. I don't like seeing my predictions come true.