Pay down mortgage or save for retirement?

Couple more thoughts--this guy had a book on Kindle that I read this month and it swayed me against condos:

http://condo-helper.com/101-reasons-not-to-buy-a-condo/

You can read some free here or get the book free on Kindle.

If one is downsizing for retirement, then one would be better off with no mortgage, right? At least that is how I see it; pay off bigger house and pay off mortgage and pay cash with what is left over, not to exceed that, so that your basic housing needs are met through retirement. So that would be my gameplan, if thinking of downsizing and leaving one more expensive part of country for a less expensive part.

We've done that, but I would honestly move close to my kids if I had a choice, and this is too far. So I can understand why Vermont better than say, Arkansas or Tennessee or some other nice tax state.

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Originally Posted by dmc

She probably didn't like hearing the truth. That at her age and having a negative net worth, with her salary, that she basically needs to hopefully die at her desk. She is not going to be able to retire unless she can pay off the loans and start saving. Which means getting rid of the house.

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I appreciated the logical suggestions regarding managing the financial challenges. I did not appreciate the assumptions about my character or values. There are many ways to solve the challenges my DH & I face, and many truths. I'm not interested in what anyone has to say about my financial situation, so yes, I am happy that this thread has taken a new turn. It's been an interesting few years in this forum, but my experience here has led me to end my participation.

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Originally Posted by rodeosweetheart

" But aren't you better off in a state with higher income tax and lower property taxes upon retirement, or am I missing something?

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Sure, especially if those are the only two measures. Of course it gets more complicated with sales taxes and other taxes. My city has, for instance, a 1% "earnings" tax that you pay against wages earned in the city. But with non-wage income, I won't have to pay that. In the end I imagine that we will stay in St. Louis where property taxes aren't too bad. Those beautiful New Hampshire farm houses will just have to go to someone else ):

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Originally Posted by redfox

. .. It's been an interesting few years in this forum, but my experience here has led me to end my participation.

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I'm sorry to read this, redfox. Hope that it just a hiatus vs. a permanent withdrawal. Your participation was highly valued by many of us.

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Originally Posted by Lainey

I'm sorry to read this, redfox. Hope that it just a hiatus vs. a permanent withdrawal. Your participation was highly valued by many of us.

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Ditto!

I'm sorry to see you go Redfox...but I'm also sorry that you chose to react this way to the comments made about your student loans. You have always been bold and opinionated, and I guess I thought you could hold your own when someone was bold and opinionated with you. We will never play a full game in life if we keep taking our ball and going home when the game doesn't go our way. I've followed this thread, and I honestly don't feel that you were attacked. I think you disagreed with the way things were worded, but you let your defensiveness cloud the main issue. We ask for ideas and opinions on this board and we're free to accept or reject the ideas and opinions that others post. If I don't like someone's answer, I can choose to at least consider it, or I can just reject it out of hand. Good luck to you, I hope that you consider bringing your ball back into the game.

Oh redfox . . . so sorry to hear this. Truly.

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Originally Posted by dmc

She probably didn't like hearing the truth. That at her age and having a negative net worth, with her salary, that she basically needs to hopefully die at her desk. She is not going to be able to retire unless she can pay off the loans and start saving. Which means getting rid of the house.

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All her editing certainly ruins any meaningful discussion, or use as examples. I remember a post about the age differences of her and her husband (15 years from memory), and know that skews the whole equation from the start. Heck, the TWO year age difference of my parents, played havoc with some retirement choices my dad had to make, years ago. (and I think some of those have changed, since retirement health care is being sent over to pools)
Very few people really have the money for a life threatening event and that alone, can screw everything up.

On the moved on stuff, language has ALWAYS been important, and I see enough stuff thrown around. My parents always wanted to "downsize" in the later years, and (now many) years ago, my mom was looking at a home, not far from me, that had stairs, and small rooms, radiators, servants quarters, etc. (old doctor's home). So FAR from what their stated goals were (brick, one level ranch, not split, etc). They found one for sale and put in an offer, which was accepted. Only thing is there "downsize" was to a larger home. (still going against their goals)

Being serious about something doesn't mean it has to be one's #1 priority. One can be serious about paying off debt for example, and still make it say one's number 3 or 5 priority or whatever, it doesn't by itself indicate "unseriousness", merely prioritization. That debt is more likely to get paid off if it is one's number one priority in life - well sure - but it's not for me to tell people what their priorities should be (I want to pay off debt but #1 and #2 and #3 are more important to me, ok good to know). Sure it's a real phenomena that sometimes people pretend to be serious about things they aren't serious about, occasionally that's pretty obvious and mine to judge (though I can't say I feel that way here), but most of them time that's between them and themselves and the only cure for that is self-awareness.

As for owning a house. It's clearly a want and not a need. I'm a renter and saying it's a need is just a bit "let them eat cake" :) Nah food is a need, not cake (and I've never been in the "cake" that is homebuying income bracket in this state). And this renter never worries about debt and is doing fine on the savings department (but life is uncertain). So this renter is never kept awake at night by finances! :) And you know what, it's a good life not to be kept awake and night with finances!!

However based on whatever assumptions one makes it can make sense based on those assumptions to own a house (Spartana's assumptions are based on very conventional financial reasoning which is ok but imperfect). If one is convinced the entire financial system is unstable for instance and the stock and bond markets will all go kaploee then maybe owning a house in the right area is relatively secure if those assumptions ever turned out to be correct. That there's a lot of risk from MY perspective as a working person to owning a house (the #1 being inability to easily move for J.O.B.s!!!), is just my situation, and I take it for granted the situation will be different for a person that is already retired for example, and doesn't need to go where the jobs are, or a person who is lucky enough to have a profession that they can always easily find jobs close by, or a self-employed person etc..

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Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

Rents in Seattle are high and going up. There is no rent control. I can't imagine having roommates; I could hardly imagine it when I was 18. The very last thing I'd do is give up my house, personally, unless there was a cheaper, nicer one waiting in the wings.

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Roommates now for freedom later - freedom from work and roommates :-)! Getting roommates can be a way to remain in your home and earn money, and it doesn't have to be long term either. In my case my take home pay (after taxes and maxing out my 457 deferred comp plan) was $3000/month. I owed ex-hubby his share of the house which I kept in the divorce, plus the nearly full mortgage (only had the place a year & 1/2 before divorce) as well as had 6 pets and the regular household expenses. Like Redfox I didn't want to move or get a small apt (or couldn't because of having so many pets) so maximizing my income was the only way to get out of debt. One way was to work a second job or as much OT as I could, another was to reduce my expenditures to the serious barebones, and a third was to get a couple of roommates. So I did that for 4 years and not only paid off ex-dh, but paid off my mortgage and saved a bit too. Then I let the roommates go and soon after quit the job to become the lazy beach volleyball bum I am today :-)!. So while I didn't like the idea of having roommates or working OT and a second job, it was all a very short term temporary thing that literally paid for my future freedom. Then, not too long after I quit my job, I sold the house and bought a smaller less expensive place in an area I liked better and that bought me my FI