The Daily Peeve / Rant

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Originally Posted by kib

I agree, but in my opinion, giving citizens guns is also a band-aid. There are very few people including trained law enforcement who can act with "James Bond-like" reflexes and lucky instincts. The perception of oneself as Super Competent With A Weapon - especially as a Man but with the addition of female superheroes, as a Woman as well - is vastly overestimated. I am - sadly - not Michele Rodriguez, and put up at super speed against Evil Villains, I'd likely shoot the most obvious targets - a bystander or myself.

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Of course eye hand coordination varies among the population but with proper training and practice the average citizen can safely possess and intelligently handle a handgun. You are infinitely more likely to kill yourself or others while driving your car to the grocery store. If we are going to be hunted down and executed by the mentally ill or terrorists then we need to be prepared to defend ourselves and our loved ones. It's the only reasonable action you can take. Does it make sense to just petition your government to solve them?

Id say an epidemic of mass shootings is a call to arms.

My State Constitution says this: Article XXI "The right of citizens to bear arms, in defense of themselves and the State, shall not be questioned."

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Originally Posted by kib

I agree, but in my opinion, giving citizens guns is also a band-aid. There are very few people including trained law enforcement who can act with "James Bond-like" reflexes and lucky instincts. The perception of oneself as Super Competent With A Weapon - especially as a Man but with the addition of female superheroes, as a Woman as well - is vastly overestimated.

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While I am not a gun owner and don't want to be one, I disagree with your statement about there being very few people who can reliably carry guns. Anyone who has served in the military has been trained to use guns. In the circles I travel, that is a lot of men and women who are very comfortable and skilled with guns, so I don't get where you are coming from.

Many civilians also train themselves to use guns--our own Tradd is a skilled gun owner, as are most hunters. Depending on where one lives, guns may be socially quite common.

So I don't think anyone is "giving citizens guns"--many many citizens already have them, as we have the right to bear arms in our country.

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

When I was out in AZ they passed a law allowing people to carry guns into bars. One of many reasons I left...

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oh FFS, why would any state pass a bill so stupid? and waste all that time pushing it through the system. I would think even pro gun citizens could agree this is a very bad idea

To be exact, as of 2014, "Arizona law allows individuals to carry guns concealed without a permit. However, a permit is necessary ... inside an Arizona restaurant or bar that serves alcohol or within 1,000 feet of a school." I'm so proud.

http://essay.utwente.nl/61212/1/Jong...verslag%29.pdf

Long. the upshot: as has been theorized and explored many times, people choke under pressure. The more emotion and fear are present, the worse they do. This applies to golfers, police officers, and you and me. It is the rare person who actually overcomes extreme pressure and emotion to do a movie-worthy performance in the worst of situations. It's certainly not that people don't want to do well, they just, often, can't.

ETA: I do agree that people can be trained in ways that reduce this. This does NOT apply to the general population no matter how skilled they are at target shooting, it's specific mental training and it's hard enough to accomplish in military and law enforcement individuals specifically drilled about it. While some people, for all I know Tradd herself, may be naturally less prone to "choke", one never knows.

The police, military, etc. will practically never be able to respond in time to a self-defense type situation. We as citizens must take some responsibility for our own defense up to the point where help could arrive.

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Originally Posted by kib

http://essay.utwente.nl/61212/1/Jong...verslag%29.pdf

Long. the upshot: as has been theorized and explored many times, people choke under pressure. The more emotion and fear are present, the worse they do. This applies to golfers, police officers, and you and me. It is the rare person who actually overcomes extreme pressure and emotion to do a movie-worthy performance in the worst of situations. It's certainly not that people don't want to do well, they just, often, can't.

ETA: I do agree that people can be trained in ways that reduce this. This does NOT apply to the general population no matter how skilled they are at target shooting, it's specific mental training and it's hard enough to accomplish in military and law enforcement individuals specifically drilled about it. While some people, for all I know Tradd herself, may be naturally less prone to "choke", one never knows.

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100% agreed

I do not have a gun because I am fairly sure I would fumble under pressure and am more likely to cause injury to my family. Especially if the burglar hadn't even brought a gun to the party and I am easily overpowered, he gets gun. No thanks, no guns here, two dogs and lots of deadbolts. I think guns in the home cause more risk of negative outcomes, i.e.: accidental gun deaths of children in the home (although is it really all that "accidental" if they were able to gain access to the gun? and the adults are still called responsible gun owners and isn't this heinous death tragic? Yes, but 100% preventable.) and people overpowered and killed or raped.

I truly do not understand why the average person needs to carry a gun in public, concealed or open. To stumble upon a gunman performing mass killings and you are the guy to take him down? I don't buy it. Or that nonsense had a teacher been armed the 45 school shootings this year would not have happened? Yeah, some poor teacher even with gun experience, is not going to choke in the wake of mass slaughter. Maybe yes, maybe no, either way I do not want them in our school. How about the preacher/Senator, who was outright criticized for not being armed in CHURCH and that he failed to protect his flock. Or maybe it's protection for in a bad neighborhood. Whatev, I do not think the vast majority of citizens should be walking around armed.

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Originally Posted by freshstart

I do not think the vast majority of citizens should be walking around armed.

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I do not think the vast majority of citizens should be voting for Democrats. Should we make it illegal?

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Originally Posted by Alan

I do not think the vast majority of citizens should be voting for Democrats. Should we make it illegal?

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Democratic beliefs don't kill people, people kill people

don't just be clever, tell me why the average American should be walking around with a gun at all times. I clearly said yesterday that I am open to compromise. I do not understand why you need to be armed at the grocery store

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Originally Posted by freshstart

Democratic beliefs don't kill people, people kill people

don't just be clever, tell me why the average American should be walking around with a gun at all times. I clearly said yesterday that I am open to compromise. I do not understand why you need to be armed at the grocery store

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What I've learned from living in the murder capital of the world is that not everyone is like me, not everyone has the same lifestyle, not everyone lives the same circumstances. Some people are exposed more often to dangerous situations than I am, or they are aware of that exposure in a way that I am different to. That unawareness is part of my personality and in many ways it suits me, but that doesn't mean there is no danger.

I don't have a gun and am not interested In getting one. But if DH got a gun for himself, that would be ok with me. He spends a lot of time, as do I, at our spare house and gardens where thugs live all around. So if he had a gun, sure, he'd be taking it into the grocery store because it's inefficient as a tool to put it on, take it off, put it on again.

And here's the reality of living in gun land: thugs have guns. They will always have guns. You cannot stop them having guns. When law abiding people like DH put his gun in the car becUse the grocery store says he can't carry it in, thugs will break into his car looking for a gun. And if the gun safe is cheap or non existent, they will get it. Another reason why it's a bad idea to strap it on, then remove it.

DH is serving on the grand jury and the majority of their cases are guns and drugs. Fellons who aren't supposed to have guns have them. All of the laws in the world won't stop them.