Would you be willing to retire your share of the national debt at the same time?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
Printable View
Would you be willing to retire your share of the national debt at the same time?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
hmmmmm......good question....and a fair one. My share of the national debt I am afraid would dwaft any money the govemment would give me to get off the entitlement rolls. So I have a hard time with this one. On the one hand, I don' t deny that you have a point, and on the other, it seems as if there are countries that meet my criteria WITHOUT the necc of nightmare debt loads - at least not as bad as ours is in the US. Or not as bad on a per-capita basis either. So to answer, yes and no. Some of it depends also on how much I would get paid to say au reviour vs. how much the projection is that my leaving would save the US. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
Reminds me of the immortal words of JFK, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you.....", aww, nevermind.
Maybe it's just a sign of the times. That so many people bow at the altar of big government, expecting to be rewarded for voting for the right people, gladly accepting and promoting reliance on others, then threatening to leave (with hopes of even being paid to do so) if their desires aren't met.
Perhaps a more appropriate quote would be:
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy." ~ Alexis de Tocqueville
The good thing is (getting back on topic), I think Paul Ryan brings the right combination of attitude, conviction and beliefs to forestall de Tocqueville's proclamation, at least for the short term.
Isn't that the uncomfortable calculus at the heart of the YMOYL-style simple-living though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
1 - minimize expenses, save a lot
2 - invest in low-risk, non-taxable instruments
3 - retire early, kick back
4 - let those poor suckers who insist on working forever pick up the tab for your healthcare, your roads, your national defense, and all those other wonderful services. You've done your time.
Not necc in my case Bae.....my goal is to leave, go somewhere where healthcare is very cheap and pay cash for what I need, probably start a business and actually contribute something.....in my case your post doesn't really apply - perhaps for others, though.....RobQuote:
Originally Posted by bae
I'm not criticising the approach, Rob. Heck, it's what I've done myself.
I hate the thought of the fruits of my labor being taken and used to kill innocent people in far off lands, while profiting vast soulless entities that despoil the Earth. The most I can manage to do at this point in time is to participate as little as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
So you would want some consideration for removing yourself as a liability from the national balance sheet. Wouldn’t it be fairer to compensate the receiving country rather than you for assuming the new liability you would create for them? And if you’re making the move to obtain a richer package of entitlements, wouldn’t it be fair for them to ask you to pay them for the step-up in the present value of the future government benefits you’re pursuing?
Alan, I get that we are not going to agree here and I am fine with this.....I just have one question for you and I am very curious as to your answer.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Given how employers treat employees in the US these days, is it not fair to apply the same critical eye/standards/personal requirements to your citizenship these days? If you don't agree fine, but could you explain to me why not? I have never understood why citizenship should be exempt from market forces such as these.
Also if I may, I am not threatening to leave. I merely bring up the suggestion as a win-win for those interested in leaving. Please note benefits to the US in such persons being taken off entitlement rolls permanenty - so the harm to any party would be? (Sorry I just exceeded my one question lol.) Rob
PS And to top all things off and also get back to topic, I don't completely disagree with Paul Ryan, either. I do agree with him that all this spending is unsustainable and that something does need to be done. I just don't agree with his road map to get somewhere sustainable.
Wow Bae, I am amazed.....I find myself agreeing with you 100%! Which just goes to show there can be common ground amongst all kinds of different people. A very hopeful thing IMHO. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by bae
It does raise some interesting angles. With this logic we probably would be better off paying very young children to leave because it will be a while before they can contribute. Get them out before they attend a public school, drive on a public road, go to public parks, use money, collect entitlements, go to court, suffer a natural disaster... As for their parents it may be a little trickier establishing what's fair.
If someone had been a fairly high earner for 30 or 40 years they would have paid in quite a bit so woud logically be entitled, so to speak, to a rebate if they were giving up future benefits. Someone who had only been working for 10 or 15 years at lower paying jobs is probably behind in their payments.
There is one simple way to get close to figuring out an average. The 2012 budget is $3.729 trillion. According to the population clock there are 314 million people in this country today. Divide it up and you get $11,875.80 each. That is what each person's share of this year's federal budget is. If someone wants to apply for a rebate upon permanently relocating we could add up their share of the budget for all the years they've been living here (the share of the debt LDAHL mentioned should be included) and then subtract what they paid in. If you have a credit, you get a check. Way oversimplified to be sure, but I still doubt many of the people in line would get checks.