So you think you know the 2nd Amendment

I haven't been able to find any reports of an armed citizen stopping the Clackamas Town Center shooting, either.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-ma...183593571.html

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Originally Posted by Yossarian

Did you read why? According to the link (and contrary to what some people say here) one guy didn't shoot because of bystanders. The other guy actually had the draw on the shooter but resorted to verbal tactics to try and difuse the situation. Not cowboys. My guess is today people would be less likely to risk giving the shooter a chance to choose to shoot it out.

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Not cowboys at all. The point is--as is obvious when even trained law enforcers get into trouble--that it isn't likely that armed citizens can save the day. Same as in the Gabby Giffords shooting.

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Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

I haven't been able to find any reports of an armed citizen stopping the Clackamas Town Center shooting, either.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-ma...183593571.html

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Since you posted this in two different threads, I'll respond to it here as well.

According to several reports, the shooter in that case saw the subject of your story pointing his weapon at him and decided to end his own life at that point.

In the other cases I cited earlier, armed citizens confronted the shooter with their weapons and were able to stop and hold them without resorting to firing. There is no doubt that the mere presence of weapons has an effect on criminals.

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Originally Posted by Alan

According to several reports, the shooter in that case saw the subject of your story pointing his weapon at him and decided to end his own life at that point.

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Another case of someone holding fire to protect bystanders, and yet no lives were lost (other than the criminal shooter) after intervention by an armed civilian.

Yet another sencless shooting. She should have been packing heat. But this was a church and she probably felt safe in this a house of The Lord and left her firearm with her babysitter.


GEESEYTOWN, Pa. -- Authorities say one of a gunman's three victims was a woman fatally shot while decorating for a children's Christmas party at a central Pennsylvania church.

In case anyone has any misplaced confidence in the shooting capabilities of your local law enforcement officers, I am here to tell you that though they must "qualify" with their sidearms (state requirement), the level of competency required is not high. One of the local gun range owners recently told me that if I am ever in town and things go wrong necessitating the local cops discharging their weapons, my best move is to grab the nearest manhole cover, duck behind it and pray to the god of my choosing. As an environmental engineer, I once had an assignment to test airborne lead levels in indoor shooting ranges. In the course of so doing, I was offered the opportunity to shoot alongside the officers who were qualifying on that day. I generally finished in either the 2nd or 3rd position score-wise. This is by no means a reflection of my competency with a semi-auto pistol. I only wish that was the case.

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Originally Posted by Alan

Since you posted this in two different threads, I'll respond to it here as well. ... .

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I should have my keyboard license revoked. I keep posting in the wrong thread and confusing everyone, especially myself. Apologies.

Linky re Clackamas: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...#ixzz2FMSeoUUl

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Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

I should have my keyboard license revoked. I keep posting in the wrong thread and confusing everyone, especially myself. Apologies.

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No worries, when we have two identical threads, differing only in titles and the forums in which they reside, it can get confusing.

I got confused as well after reading the post in this thread. I was sure I'd already responded to it but at first didn't realize I was in an entirely different thread.

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Originally Posted by peggy

And your threat with the 'many happy returns with the NRA' was just peachy? You know what, I may have said before that you were an exception, but I change my mind. You are paranoid, as well as delusional, sitting at breakfast with a loaded gun in your holster, every ready to spring to the defense of your helpless neighbors. I'm sure they get a laugh from that one, behind your back of course. You need to turn off the late night TV and join the reality based world.
Maybe you don't know this, so I'll clue you in. You are not a cop. You are not military, or special forces, or defender of everything free and good and apple pie on your secluded little island. You are not The Great Gatsby playing superman in a Micky Spillane novel.
You are George Zimmerman. With a tony address.

And I'm pretty sure you find the truth loathsome. Tough.

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I love ya Peggy but that was kind of mean. I think Bae - as well as other's here like Free and Alan (and I'll include myself as well having both military and tactical law enforcement training) - seems to be one of the most experienced, trained and knowledgeable people on this issue. Certainly not a George Zimmerman in my book. He also seems to be a calm levelheaded person who wouldn't make rash choices. And the dude also wears a kilt - which goes a long way for me :-)! So while I get that you think that we (not counting Free here) and all people like us are all a bunch of wacko, paranoid, shoot-em-up cowboys, I like to think that we can all have a rational friendly discussion about this topic and present our side of it (the "darkside" if you will :-)!) without fear of getting called names. It is one of the most important topics of our generation - ending gun violence - and I like to hear everyone's opinion whether I agree withit or not. So now I will return to my bunker, put on my tin foil hat, and drink some more rum toddies -and join Jane in being confused at just which thread I'm in :-)!