Yikes- 2 bombs exploded at the Boston Marathon

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Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

I suspect there's a good chance some of this will turn out to be false (armed with explosives etc.). Because ... because ... conspiracy! Well no, because much information we get right at the time of such a thing unfolding turns out to be false.



I think there are good reasons to fear protesting from what one hears about how protests are dealt with (occupy had people trying to kill them. who? it's redacted). Note, I did not say don't protest.

I doubt a police state in the U.S. ever would take the form of cracking down on everyone, what would be the point? You just need to target a very small minority of the population that is really political active (most aren't, voting doesn't cut it).

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Well, about the explosives--all the police knew was that explosives had been thrown at them during the chase. It was a logical assumption that the second suspect might have more. A reasonable precaution, if you will. He might have not had them, but I can see how law enforcement would continue to operate on the assumption that he might have more. Better safe than sorry, and all that sort of thing. I grant you, there's a lot of misinformation flung about in an emergency, and I don't think the rabid news media helps.

I avoided tv for most of the week, but I did watch the final hours of the manhunt--the local stations were covering it without stopping for commercials. At one point, a guy in the newsroom was asking a reporter on the street where he was, so that the newsroom people could tell him how to get closer to the scene of the action. And the guy on the street stopped them--"I'm not getting any closer. I'm not moving. The police won't let me and I don't want to." That's what I mean by rabid news media--getting too close to flying bullets.

And I'm only talking about "police state" here as it applies to conversations people are having about how Boston looked on Friday. Just because the streets were empty does not, to me, signal a police state. I used to walk to church every Sunday through the Common and it was just as deserted, but that's to be expected at 7 am on a Sunday.

Am I concerned about how our rights have been trodden upon since 9/11? Yes. Do I think this one incident in Boston is an example of that? No, as regards the general public.

Am I concerned that the suspect in custody hasn't apparently been read his Miranda rights and may not be read them? Yes.

Do I have an answer to balancing freedom from terrorism and freedom of personal rights? No. I wish I did.

One thing that feels more like a police state is the ramping up of automatic license plate detection/analysis equipment in cruisers. They have them here in Boston.

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Originally Posted by Miss Cellane

To me, those pictures of Boston do not look like a "police state." They look like a state of emergency. They look like similar pictures taken during or after a hurricane or blizzard (minus the snow) or a major blackout. Not a police state. We've had the National Guard in Boston after major blizzards that closed the city down, and we were grateful for their presence. Definitely eerie, so see familiar streets so empty, but not a vision of a police state.

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Agreed. The first thing it reminded me of was the blizzards we had where everyone was told to remain off the streets if possible, to let the plows do their jobs.

Plus, numerous people in Watertown heard the noise of the shootout. Here's a doctor from Watertown:
"[Dr] Schoenfeld lives in the Boston suburb of Watertown and heard explosions from the shootout between the two brothers and police early Friday. He called the [Beth Israel] hospital to alert staff they likely would be getting injured people, then rushed in to coordinate preparations."

I have read that others in Watertown heard the noise as well.

Here's what EJDionne says on Twitter: "Most complied because the request made sense to them. Voluntary compliance only works if governments don't abuse their authority "

When the press conference occurred in the later afternoon, where they said they couldn't find him, and people should go about their daily business... that made me nervous, because you know some resident is going to spot the guy.

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Up until last year, I lived two miles away from where the second suspect was found, in a town bordering Watertown. Even though my town was not officially on lockdown, I gather that most people stayed home because of the T shutdown, and most people stayed indoors, because the town is right on the border of Cambridge and Watertown and people didn't feel safe leaving their homes.

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Yeah, I also lived in a bordering town a few years back, and to see all the footage on tv of an area I was very familiar with... Arsenal St, the Watertown Mall, etc... That made me more nervous than if the situation had been in another suburb I was unfamiliar with. So I can only imagine how the people in Watertown felt.

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Originally Posted by Miss Cellane

Am I concerned that the suspect in custody hasn't apparently been read his Miranda rights and may not be read them? Yes.

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Why does that concern you? What are "the Miranda rights", and when do they apply, and what do they prevent?

It would only concern me if they used the suspects statements during his trial to incriminate him. (Modulo the public safety exception, see New York v. Quarles, 467 U.S. 649, which would allow them to do a bit more...)

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Originally Posted by bae

Why does that concern you? What are "the Miranda rights", and when do they apply, and what do they prevent?

It would only concern me if they used the suspects statements during his trial to incriminate him. (Modulo the public safety exception, see New York v. Quarles, 467 U.S. 649, which would allow them to do a bit more...)

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Given the current medical state of the suspect, it's also quite possible (or could be argued as a defense) that the suspect was not in a state where he could understand the rights being read to him.

There has been no interrogation, yet. The telling point will be if he has been mirandized or not prior to being questioned.

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Originally Posted by creaker

There has been no interrogation, yet. The telling point will be if he has been mirandized or not prior to being questioned.

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And that only really matters if they use the results of that questioning to convict *him*. Otherwise they can pretty much talk to him as much as they want. He of course doesn't have to answer. (Unless the court orders him to talk, and (even against his will) grants him immunity from prosecution based on the words coming out of his mouth, as I believe some mobsters have discovered in the past...)

I wonder how much of this falls under the NDAA of 2012, where as I understand it, suspects of acts of terror on US soil basically have no constitutional rights to due process of law.

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Originally Posted by bae

And that only really matters if they use the results of that questioning to convict *him*. Otherwise they can pretty much talk to him as much as they want. He of course doesn't have to answer. (Unless the court orders him to talk, and (even against his will) grants him immunity from prosecution based on the words coming out of his mouth, as I believe some mobsters have discovered in the past...)

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As long as due process is followed. I read some things insinuating Miranda rights were not read because that would be an acknowledgement that the suspect has rights - that argument worries me.

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Originally Posted by Rogar

I wonder how much of this falls under the NDAA of 2012, where as I understand it, suspects of acts of terror on US soil basically have no constitutional rights to due process of law.

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That's scary - anyone can be a suspect.

I have an interesting take on this. I have been out of the country since this happened last Monday. I have been in Los Algodones, Mexico, having some crowns done at $140 each before leaving for my seasonal job in Utah, and also I have been here so that my mother could have her plate put in at a much lower cost than in the US - she did not want to come down to Mexico alone. So I have been here in Mexico since 4/15. It has been funky getting the news from the Internet and seeing the flag at the border at half mast all week. Wow, my mind is boggled that such a thing has happened in Massachusetts - makes me very grateful to live so close to the southern border with Mexico is all I can say. Rob