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My state's Department of Elementary and Secondary Education is letting bad teachers move from school to school much as the Catholic Church used to let bad priests move from parish to parish. By bad teachers I mean they are letting kids watch porn in class, are sexually harassing other teachers, etc. But hey, the DESE is forcing kids with miniscule risks from covid to all wear masks. Priorities, right?
The news stories on this must be missing some of the details.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Here are some details:Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
https://www.wcvb.com/article/5-inves...lity/38256912#
A followup story last night covered teachers being moved from school to school.
Read it and weep,
We’re gambling now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
I guess I’m still missing something. It says the supervisors (which it said earlier in the article were the ones giving porn to the kids) involved in this were no longer working there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Here is the follow-up story:Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
https://www.wcvb.com/article/5-inves...again/38337795
From our local news.
Larimer County adopted a mask order when its hospitals got overwhelmed with COVID-19 cases along with a surge on other medical needs. It’s had an impact, Jefferson County public health director Dawn Comstock told Jeffco’s board.
“Hospital admissions are now down approximately 33 percent since the beginning of the mask mandate in Larimer County,” she said.
“Public health orders in Boulder and Larimer counties have led to increased mask-wearing and kept hospitalizations lower,” said Lexi Nolen, Boulder County Public Health's deputy director. “We see that our towns on county borders are experiencing higher case rates.”
I am not convinced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
Covid comes in waves, so the decrease could be that it has peaked in this area. If masks work, why are positivity rates lowest in states like South Carolina, Texas or Florida that did not have mandates?
There is also the assumption that people don't travel outside the borders of the town or county where the mask mandate is in place, and that people only gather places where there are mask mandates.
For instance, my city has a mask mandate for municipal buildings, but people go many other places including private businesses and private homes.
I very much doubt that one county’s mandate keeps that county safe while neighboring unmasked counties spread the disease at a very high level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
Masks provide some mitigation of spread. People on either side of the mask mandate argument are fooling themselves that either is correct.
Maybe, maybe not. I think one thing the mask mandate does do is that it elevates the awareness of increased risk, so there are other behavioral changes that go along with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Our hospitals are at or near near capacity. I suspect if things don't improve there will be further restrictions on indoor activities and no one wants that. Businesses that require staff and customers to be vaccinated are exempt so the slogan is, "Mask or vax". It sounds like the penalties will not be too harsh and other than blatant violations there will not be especially strict enforcement.
I think you are right about added awareness when there’s a mask mandate. There are so many micro actions around masks that thinking “mask or unmasked “as a blunt force instrument is silly to me. But that is all government can do, it has the power to mandate masking. Checking proper masking protocol is outside of its ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
Do you know how many people fail to wear masks even remotely correctly? Tons. We don’t even talk about that here.
I wear a mask when I’m supposed to, as best I remember.Do I wear it correctly? Well, not always. Is the mask itself correct? Well, not always.
My understanding is that the point of the mask requirement isn't necessarily to protect any one specific individual, but rather to dampen the rate of spread. So, "good enough, some of the time" can help drop the curve for your overall society, while individual people, well, maybe not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Which is why I wear fit-tested N95 masks, because in addition to slowing the spread, I sort of want to stay healthy myself. I know, I'm selfishly using an N95 that probably could save a starving child in Somalia, but that's the way of the world.
Right, any masking helps, but much of the masking out there barely helps. There are right ways and wrong ways to participate in masking culture.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
I wear an N95 that I have adapted to my head with elastic because my ears don’t hold it on. Guess how often
I change it out. I am an example of “the right mask mask worn wrongly.” Just an example.
I suspect that this right mask worn wrongly stuff is mostly myth though. It really is a case of making the perfect an enemy of the very good. It's striving for a perfectionism that just does not apply in non-medical contexts.
Should it be changed out regularly, if you are tending to covid patients esp before the vaccine sure (although due to shortages early on that wasn't always possible), but that a limited group of people, but yea if one is taking care of covid patients. But for most people the insisting on absolute perfection if one wears a medical grade masks, while generally drawing no distinctions in mask quality at all, did absolutely no good. Was it best before the vaccine to also social distance when possible? Of course.
I consulted with an arborist the other day. Outside, masked (both of us), 10 feet apart or so. Felt very safe.
Because my artsy side hates the look of N95 masks*, I wear a 2-layer cotton jersey liner under a 3-layer (including KN95 filter) Vermont Beau-Ties mask, which also fits close to my face. And I keep my distance, so I think I've got it covered.
*If the ugly blue foldy things are N95s, why do they almost always gape out at the sides? That can't be effective, can it?
Years back, I went on a quest for The Perfect N95 for me. It had to fit my face properly, it had to make a seal that would pass our regular testing (with my preferred facial hair style), it had to be robust enough to live in the pockets of bunker gear or backpacks, and ideally it had to be vaguely comfortable. I must have gone though nearly a dozen options before finding one that was Just About Right. Which was a fold-flat variety, but it doesn't gap once donned correctly, as it allows for a reasonable amount of molding to your face.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
Luckily I had an entire mountain of these things in stock when the pandemic began, as I'd been handing them out to coworkers for them to try out as well. The standard ones our department issued were terrible - they passed the fit test, but in field use they got destroyed often before use. That kind might have been suitable for use in a controlled environment, but not-so-much outside that context.
I guess the key is - try lots, which of course was hard during the initial stages of the pandemic.
I think "Try lots." is good advice.
I'm particularly fond of my red flannel buffalo plaid model--perfect for the PNW. :~)
Jane: the "ugly blue foldy things" are not N95s. I hear them most commonly referred to as "procedure masks."
Rogar, mask or vax makes sense to me because it provides an incentive for vaccination. Mask mandates that apply to vaccinated people do the opposite and create moral hazard.
Of course, anyone who wants to wear a mask should be able to. I even saw one in a bank a few weeks ago.
That makes sense. I understood that real N95s were supposed to be individually fit to best contain droplets.Quote:
Originally Posted by rosarugosa
The program sounds good on paper. There is supposedly some certification requried to go maskless with a vaccinated staff and all customers, and also follow up audits, but it will be an overwhelming task to enforce.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
I am due for an elective surgery and time will tell whether the medical system by that time will be overwhelmed because the same people who take anti-depressants, statins, blood pressure medications, and other medicines all with risk of adverse effects refuse a covid shot because they've read an article, heard a podcast, or talked with same minded friends. I think it is a cultural issue more than a scientific one.
We can go back and forth about masks and I have an opinion, but people just need to get vaccinated. Until that happens, the beatings will continue until the attitude improve. The second line of defense is restrictions on mask and social distancing whether you or I like it or not. I believe as one of the German health officials said, eventually everyone will either be vaccinated, cured, or dead. I would add, or combinations there of.
I ran across a new term the other day - anamnestic. It is when waning immunity is boosted either by exposure to the virus or from booster shots. "Each exposure trains the immune system to recognize and respond to the virus faster" according to this article:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...d=winp1taskbar
So we will get there, and if instead of hiding behind masks we live normal lives we will get there quicker, assuming masks actually reduce exposure to the virus.
Next step - Covid parties! Get your immunity boosted with your friends!
FFS
When my son had chicken pox as a child a coworker wanted to have his kids play with him so they could catch it since it is better to get it while young and it's mild than when older. Another coworker freaked out that I might have been exposed and I, feeling perfectly fine, was sent home with pay. It takes all kinds.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
So maybe covid parties for the kids so they don't die of covid when they get older and weaker.
I was exposed to chickenpox at least a couple of times and never got it. Mumps and measles, on the other hand...
I am due for an elective surgery and time will tell whether the medical system by that time will be overwhelmed because the same people who take anti-depressants, statins, blood pressure medications, and other medicines all with risk of adverse effects refuse a covid shot because they've read an article, heard a podcast, or talked with same minded friends. I think it is a cultural issue more than a scientific one. (Roger) ---Yeah, what irony! I avoid Pharma medications, but I was perfectly happy to get the shot.
At my age, I'll err on the side of caution. I don't mind wearing a mask, and don't consider that doing so abridges my freedom in the slightest.
Not something I'd want to try, but I suspect a lot of vaccinated people have inadvently been exposed and just had mild symptoms or were asymptomaic and never realized they had a mild Covid case. It would be spinning the wheel of fortune to do this intentionally. 20% of our hospitalizations are among the vaccinated and I'd not want to be one of them..Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Wait…is that now the latest stat, 20% of hospitalizations are people who have been vaccinated?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
is that true? If true, that number has certainly climbed in recent months. It started out a very small percentage.
This is creeping me out big time, these breakthrough cases in vaccinated people. This right here is why I approve of mandates - especially Austria's which covers all citizens and residents.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
We are not done with Covid. I believe Europe is the petri dish proving this. I've got two weeks of PTO now and whenever I take it I will not be venturing far. The only countries - as of a few days ago - admitting US citizens with no hassles are Mexico and Colombia - and I question this wisdom even as I make plans for my next border run. Rob
It might be different where you live, but it's a number our news routinely banters about. A quick fact check, but I've seen it from other recent reliable sourcesQuote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Even as the root of this contradiction remains a mystery, the source of the infection spike now gripping this state is clear. Those who are unvaccinated comprise about 80% of infections. At UCHealth hospitals, that ratio holds: 78% of those hospitalized and 91% of those in ICUs are unvaccinated. The ones hospitalized despite being vaccinated are often immunocompromised or significantly older.
https://www.uchealth.org/today/why-are-colorado-covid-19-cases-spiking/
When you go to the hospital they test you for covid. If you test positive you are automatically counted as a covid hospitalization.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
So I could feel perfectly fine, no covid symptoms, then I have a heart attack or stroke. Although I am fully vaccinated and my covid is asymptomatic I will now count as a covid hospitalization despite the fact that covid has nothing to do with why I am in the hospital.
Hospitals get more money for covid patients. Families get funeral money for "covid deaths". So there are incentives to exaggerate.
I would just put a sign on the door, "Unvaccinated, enter at your own risk".Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
It should not be the job of government or business to protect people from themselves. Personal responsibility needs to come into play. If it doesn't then natural selection will.
In these cases I distrust your twisting of numbers to benefit an argement much more than our department of health.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Don't take it from me - take it from this link:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
https://www.masslive.com/coronavirus...two-weeks.html
"The total includes those being treated for reasons other than COVID-19, but who've tested positive."
Maybe in your state it is different.
I've not seen similar verbage in anything I've seen here, but I'd admit there could be some grey areas. If I were interested in further verifications, I'd say the spike in hospitalizations among the vaccinated coincides with the spike in unvaccinated. Therefore one would conclude that the spike is due to covid rather than a spike in strokes and heart attacks.
If I were to suppose information not represented anywhere I've seen, I'd say that there is a good possibility that at least some of the reports of hospitalizations among the vaccinated not only includes the immune compromised and elderly, but is also dependent on the time period since vaccination. It seems fairly obvious, at least to me, that the vaccine protect wanes over time and increases risk.
Even with the spikes only 15% or so of hospitalizations in my state are due to covid. Depending on the hospital between 5 and 50% of hospital capacity is used for prescheduled surgeries. There is a backlog of these people were afraid to go in for surgery pre-vaccine. There are also staffing shortages (nurses strike is the major factor in my area; in red states more likely people leaving the profession due to vaccine mandates). My area has seen a decrease in beds over the years due to health care consolidation even as the population ages, because heaven forbid we have excess capacity which costs money. Instead pre-pandemic there were long wait times to be admitted, especially for behavioral health. And the covid restrictions have led to spikes in both depression and drug addiction. But the headlines on the news blame everything on people catching covid. The journalists are lazy and do not dig deep or connect the dots in a big picture view. A separate reporter will do a story on covid and mental health, but the lead story on hospital capacity will ignore that factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
My conclusion, going back to the original topic, would be that going to a Covid party to intentionally get infected is a really bad idea regardless of quibbling over numbers. However, you would be welcome to test the theory if you think otherwise.
And the news story today is that we are all to be quaking in terror at the latest variant coming out of South Africa, the B11etc version.
I guess the news powers that be allowed everyone to have a happy Thanksgiving and now the day after we need to start up the Covid terror campaign again. By this I do not mean that it’s not a serious disease because it is. Remember, I avoid humans and get all vaccinations, but it’s really tiresome how the “1 to 3 new stories of the day “ program has taken up this latest thing.
Propogating fear seems to be the way of media these days. Who really knows anymore what the heck is going on out there with Covid and its variants?
Within some limits, it seems to me like we actually know quite a bit about the existing variants. Not everything, but there is some degree of concensus on many basics. No one know much about the most recent, but it's worth some concern. No doubt the media tends to overplay things and people tend to over react, as indicated by the stock market today.
We are also getting bogus data on covid positivity rates. Many people now buy home tests and if they are negative don't report this to anyone, but if positive do tell their doctor and seek advice on quarantining etc. So with many more negative than positive test results reported the covid positivity rates are inflated.