Getting involved in Libya

For those who didn't see the speech last night, here's the Cliff Notes:

1) It’s the U.S.’s role to intervene anywhere that there are atrocities or persecution going on, unless there’s a vital national interest there and/or they have the ability to shoot back at us in any meaningful form whatsoever;

(2) Our goal is not to depose Qaddafi, whatever I may have said yesterday, last week, etc., except when it is our goal, which is whenever it isn’t not our goal to do so;

(3) This will not be like the Iraq kinetic military action, because that one wasn’t referred to by such a clever, lawyerly phrase, and because that “regime change…took 8 years” (I think he missed that by about 7 and a half years), except that regime change isn’t our goal (see #2 above);

(4) The U.S. will prevail in Libya, except that we won’t be the ones doing it - NATO will - and, to ensure that this is true, we’re going to refrain from consistently communicating any goals whatsoever for our mission there, even as we send pilots (and, not at all unlikely, specialized ground forces) into harm’s way in pursuit of some nebulous objective which, again, we’re not going to bother telling you about; and,

(5) To quote Jim Geraghty, “Look, I realize none of you understand my decision making, but at the end of the day, you can rest easy knowing I’m right.”

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Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

Blah, is work an end it itself?

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It is if you have none. But I think food, shelter, warmth, etc are the ends. Work is a means to those ends.

He makes a beautiful speech. I voted for him but I am sure disappointed in his actions.

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Originally Posted by freein05

He makes a beautiful speech. I voted for him but I am sure disappointed in his actions.

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Same here, Free. I am actually pretty disgusted in general. I personally do not think that this is what people that voted on Obama wanted in terms of "hope and change".

I am for workers, social justice, women's right to choose, gays are not a problem with me, I consider religion mostly hocus pocus, and against killing people in the name of foreign policy, and just cannot see myself voting for any conservative and their agenda.

I worry that Pres. Obama does not base his decisions on principle but rather is more like a Clinton and is willing to whatever it takes to get re-elected. What are people like myself to do?

I never in my wildest dreams would have thought that this would be what we would get after the decade of "W" ?

I guess I am really naive - may the lord of the sky bless our frigging souls - something does not smell right.

I felt this same way after returning to the states after Vietnam - and it has been pretty much down hill since.

I think we have "lost our way":sick:

Peace

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Originally Posted by Zigzagman

I consider religion mostly hocus pocus, and against killing people in the name of foreign policy, and just cannot see myself voting for any conservative and their "white power" agenda.

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Just out of curiosity, what exactly is our "white power" agenda?

I don't want to distract the conversation from our commitment of military forces to Libya.

Peace

Well, you can't just coyly hint that all conservatives are white nationalist racists, then expect to smile and politely move on....

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Originally Posted by Zigzagman

Sorry Alan, I was referring more to a "white nationalism" agenda - the "white power" term was more of a throw-back of my youth and the "Black Power" movement.

I don't want to distract the conversation from our commitment of military forces to Libya - maybe a good subject to discuss, if you dare?

Peace

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I dare!
Start a thread, explain your premise and lets see where it goes.

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Originally Posted by alan

I dare!
Start a thread, explain your premise and lets see where it goes.

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Alan/Bae - I deleted my reference to "white power" in my comment. It is nothing but a distraction with regard to the Libyan "war" effort. I always get caught up in these racists debates and they are never of any value.

Admittedly, I do consider the GOP and most conservatives a party of whites (no diversity) and I guess that could be considered racist but since I am white I don't view it as such. My bad!!

My bias is based on my local experience and maybe it is different in other parts of the country.

Peace

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Originally Posted by alan

For those who didn't see the speech last night, here's the Cliff Notes:

1) It’s the U.S.’s role to intervene anywhere that there are atrocities or persecution going on, unless there’s a vital national interest there and/or they have the ability to shoot back at us in any meaningful form whatsoever;

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Of course in actual reality, as opposed to a web of verbal fictions, we usually tend to invade mostly where there is an interest (now whether it is truly a national interest or just the interest of certain elite, and whether it is vital, I don't know, but they have oil).

Obama gave bad signs before he was even elected, talked about escalating Afghanistan in the presidential debates etc. (there may have been a time early in the presidential contest where this was not true, but by the time it was too late to turn back, we had bomb bomb Iran and Obomba Afghanistan as major party candidates.). That he is worse than people expected, well yea ......