How to convince my girlfriend she does not need to go on pricey dates?

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

I recognize that for some people, commitment without marriage is what they value. That's fine. I just think that in the vast majority of cases where they bring children into the world, kids are best served by two committed parents with legal protections.

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agreed. I understand a woman's desire not to marry, but should she have a child outside of marriage, she does not have much of a safety net for either of them if things go south. I liked when men and women entered into domestic partnership in NY, but they got taxed on receiving their partners benefits, like health insurance. So marriage provides legal protections to both. Not a huge marriage fan now, but I would never have a child with a man I'm in a relationship with without a marriage. You would not believe the legal issues that come up when divorcing with children. Imagine determining any of that stuff with no marriage to "protect" you.

is it some woman-empowering thing to have kids sans marriage but stay in LTR? because, unless you are a high earner, disentangling from that mess is anything but empowering

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Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

well read about female sterilization it's a much bigger operation than a vasectomy - MUCH, ...
yes my point of view most of the time is men don't understand anything, doh men - haha I never said they should date me (and they think there is something wrong with you if you take birth control more seriously than them, why worry your pretty little head about that dear .....) But Alan is too cool :)

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A tubal ligation is analogous to a vasectomy; they access the fallopian tubes and cut, tie, and/or cauterize them. I had some discomfort for a day or so. I've had much worse experiences at the dentist's office. And no side effects of any kind.

It was important for me to take responsibility for birth control; it was no one's responsibility but mine and I would have been the one to live with the consequences of any failure. I believe it's up to the partner who most wants not to be a parent to take action.

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Originally Posted by freshstart

agreed. I understand a woman's desire not to marry, but should she have a child outside of marriage, she does not have much of a safety net for either of them if things go south. I liked when men and women entered into domestic partnership in NY, but they got taxed on receiving their partners benefits, like health insurance. So marriage provides legal protections to both. Not a huge marriage fan now, but I would never have a child with a man I'm in a relationship with without a marriage. You would not believe the legal issues that come up when divorcing with children. Imagine determining any of that stuff with no marriage to "protect" you.

is it some woman-empowering thing to have kids sans marriage but stay in LTR? because, unless you are a high earner, disentangling from that mess is anything but empowering

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Uh... have you not heard the incessantly-repeated phrase "I don't even need a man! I'm an independent woman."?

What is humorous is how that phrase and similarly worded phrases are used on internet dating sites. I talked and went on so many dates with women who would say that to me: "I don't even need a man!" or, with slightly more tact: "I don't need a man, but I want a husband someday who'll be a father to my kids." Uh...what?!

It was jarring.

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Originally Posted by freshstart

agreed. I understand a woman's desire not to marry, but should she have a child outside of marriage, she does not have much of a safety net for either of them if things go south. I liked when men and women entered into domestic partnership in NY, but they got taxed on receiving their partners benefits, like health insurance. So marriage provides legal protections to both. Not a huge marriage fan now, but I would never have a child with a man I'm in a relationship with without a marriage. You would not believe the legal issues that come up when divorcing with children. Imagine determining any of that stuff with no marriage to "protect" you.

is it some woman-empowering thing to have kids sans marriage but stay in LTR? because, unless you are a high earner, disentangling from that mess is anything but empowering

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This book I am reading called Promises I Can Keep sheds some light on this maybe...

Apparently many single moms in the "ghetto" or disadvantaged urban neighborhoods have bizarre views of marriage. The authors cited an example of how they were talking to a group of inner city single moms and the single moms said things like: "You white women are sure into your husbands."

It was like they saw marrying a guy as taxing to their grit, resources, and independence to mother their kids the way they want. But they would still live with a boyfriend, or more likely a string of boyfriends with whom they'd have a kid and then split and repeat.

But at the same time they think of marriage as something that their great-grandparents did "back in the day." A few women said things like: "We don't believe in divorce. That is why none of the women in my family are married."

There were lots of other wacky things along these lines.

"need" tends to imply helplessness and dependence, I can see not embracing the word. FWIW I have never placed a personal like that but I imagine.

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Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

"need" tends to imply helplessness and dependence, I can see not embracing the word. FWIW I have never placed a personal like that but I imagine.

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I need water, food, sleep, and shelter to live. I need certain kinds of relationships to be happy -- friends and a life partner, maybe family too. haha

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Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

i I'm not sure what this even means, unless it just means being horny or something (ok maybe 30 something is a woman's sexual peak, that I could believe). I think maybe a woman might wonder if she is missing anything by not having kids, especially if everyone around her does and it's all they talk about. Wondering if they might enjoy it or find it meaningful. But I don't think it has anything to do with hormones really.

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true as this is when hormones beneficial for pregnancy and motherhood are declining. It's not hormones but I've seen wistful 38 yr olds who would maybe like a baby to crazed, asking everyone to set her up so she can develop a relationship quickly and get that golden ring- a baby. I knew a lot of the latter. A door perhaps starting to close and desperately trying to bide time before it does.

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Originally Posted by freshstart

true as this is when hormones beneficial for pregnancy and motherhood are declining. It's not hormones but I've seen wistful 38 yr olds who would maybe like a baby to crazed, asking everyone to set her up so she can develop a relationship quickly and get that golden ring- a baby. I knew a lot of the latter. A door perhaps starting to close and desperately trying to bide time before it does.

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A very close friend of mine told me, at age 37, that she values having a baby more than her husband. She lamented his lack of understanding. I asked: "Did you tell him that you'd rather have a baby than him? Did that motivate him to 'try' more often?"

Strange situation...

Noteworthy on the vasectomy issue: A few women I went on dates with told me -- either outright or subtly -- to consider getting a "secret v-sec" if I did not want kids because otherwise I'd never meet someone because I was up front about not wanting kids. They obviously sent me on my way, but this was their parting advice.

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

"I don't need a man, but I want a husband someday who'll be a father to my kids." Uh...what?!

It was jarring.

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I don't see what's jarring about that. Personally, I don't need a man. I love my husband, and I want him around. But I don't need him. And yes, one of the reasons I want him is because he is a wonderful father to OUR kids. Want vs. need. I could have lived a very fulfilling life without him or any man, I believe. But I would rather have him than not. Because I want him. Same with kids. I don't need to have kids, but I wanted them, and now I have them.