Russia/Ukraine?

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Originally Posted by jp1

Why would they bother polling people about something that has zero chance of happening. If anyone is going to start a war with us it’s not going to be soldiers and tanks moving down Main Street USA.

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So it would seem, but the longer I live the less certain I am about discounting the “zero chance” possibility. Who would have thought we’d be celebrating German rearmament? Or that there would be a Trump administration? Or that the Cubs would win a World Series? History can often mock complacency in bloody ways.

Nor do I much credit polls about hypotheticals. I suspect that in a real “Red Dawn” situation behaviors would be quite different. A lot of F-150s with “These Colors Don’t Run” bumper stickers would be turbo-boosting toward Ensenada or Moose Jaw. A lot of Priuses with “Coexist” stickers would be silently hurrying to the sound of the guns with IEDs in their NPR totes. These sorts of questions tend to encourage cheap bluster and passive-aggressive sneering.

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

So it would seem, but the longer I live the less certain I am about discounting the “zero chance” possibility. Who would have thought we’d be celebrating German rearmament? Or that there would be a Trump administration? Or that the Cubs would win a World Series? History can often mock complacency in bloody ways.

Nor do I much credit polls about hypotheticals. I suspect that in a real “Red Dawn” situation behaviors would be quite different. A lot of F-150s with “These Colors Don’t Run” bumper stickers would be turbo-boosting toward Ensenada or Moose Jaw. A lot of Priuses with “Coexist” stickers would be silently hurrying to the sound of the guns with IEDs in their NPR totes. These sorts of questions tend to encourage cheap bluster and passive-aggressive sneering.

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I couldn't agree more with this. Perfectly said.

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Originally Posted by Alan

Not sure, it was a Quinnipiac University poll, you can find the results here: 3/7/22 - Vast Majority Of Americans Say Ban Russian Oil, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Nearly 8 In 10 Support U.S. Military Response If Putin Attacks A NATO Country | Quinnipiac University Poll

An excerpt from their results: WHAT WOULD AMERICANS DO?

"As the world witnesses what is happening to Ukraine, Americans were asked what they would do if they were in the same position as Ukrainians are now: stay and fight or leave the country? A majority (55 percent) say they would stay and fight, while 38 percent say they would leave the country. Republicans say 68 - 25 percent and independents say 57 - 36 percent they would stay and fight, while Democrats say 52 - 40 percent they would leave the country."

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They surveyed 1,374 adults who actually answered the phone. Out of hundreds of millions of us. Despite the fact this is a highly regarded poll, I have lost all faith in polling recently as I have the news. It seems to me a bizarre question which only serves to polarize us. We are all Americans after all. Can you tell how much I hate the generalizations such as Republicans are racist, democrats want open borders, blah blah. it really is sad we are not coming together against the real enemies and instead claiming warfare on each other. We are playing right into the hands of our foes by allowing them to divide and conquer us.

I certainly would be of no use to the fight as a 70+ YO woman who has never touched a gun. Of course I might be of use if I stayed but the situation in Ukraine is so vastly different due to their geography.
A woman I know has a sister in Poland who is taking in refugees as they move towards relatives and gives them a place to shower, Some matresses on a floor of her house to spend the night and hot meals and supplies to move on. so far it has been the old, the very young and their mothers.

All I do know is a bunch of us Regardless of political party that are sending her money and she is buying supplies to help them move to safety.

By the way I identify as an independent and have voted for Republican and Democrat presidents during my lifetime.

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Originally Posted by Tradd

Had a very disturbing conversation with a friend last night. Friend is of mostly Russian background, but has some Ukrainian heritage, as well. Her brother is married to a woman from Ukraine. Sister in law only had one remaining immediate relative alive - her mother - who goes back and forth her between the US and UKraine. I asked if SIL’s mother was in the US Indefinitely. Friend told me SIL’s mother lives south of Chernobyl in the middle of nowhere, has seen no fighting, and sees absolutely no reason to leave. She had been in the US over the winter but returned shortly before the Russians invaded. I was told SIL has an uncle who is refusing to fight for Ukraine but is defending his property from looters - not Russians, but the average citizens who had been handed guns and were now looting since they never had very much and are now taking whatever they can.

Friend then launched into conspiracy level stuff - Putin doesn’t want to hurt the average Ukrainians. He’s going slow to given them their time to surrender, etc. Plus a whole bunch of stuff that was weapons grade conspiracy theory stuff. The US and Europe are going to pay for what they’ve done so far and it would become apparent within a few years. She was telling me not to pay attention to what’s going on in the mainstream media and texted me a link to something on YT to watch. I got the “I have relatives/friends in UKraine and Russia that are telling me very different things.” Putin fan all the way. I knew she was somewhat right leaning, but I had no idea just how much. Yikes.

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That is absolutely disturbing. However I wonder if we have raised the bar pretty high for the Ukraine population. Were this in the United States I could still picture a small group running out of stores with looted large screen TVs. And case in point, how many would believe authoritarian generated state propaganda and conspiracy falsehoods, as in stop the steal. In one of Putin's early speeches he used the ploy of weapons of mass destruction being hid in the Ukraine. It sounded sort of familiar.

Then there’s Biden’s apparently off the cuff remark that Putin can’t remain in power. The sec’y of state had to agree with the Russian gov’t statement that it’s their choice if Putin remains in power.

But I think Blinken should have added that the Russian people aren’t actually given a choice for president.

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Originally Posted by Rogar

That is absolutely disturbing. However I wonder if we have raised the bar pretty high for the Ukraine population. Were this in the United States I could still picture a small group running out of stores with looted large screen TVs. And case in point, how many would believe authoritarian generated state propaganda and conspiracy falsehoods, as in stop the steal. In one of Putin's early speeches he used the ploy of weapons of mass destruction being hid in the Ukraine. It sounded sort of familiar.

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It doesn’t help that the US President fuels Russian propaganda with gaffes like “Putin has to go” or tells US troops how much they will appreciate the Ukrainian people “when you’re there”.

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Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere

They surveyed 1,374 adults who actually answered the phone. Out of hundreds of millions of us. Despite the fact this is a highly regarded poll, I have lost all faith in polling recently as I have the news. It seems to me a bizarre question which only serves to polarize us. We are all Americans after all. Can you tell how much I hate the generalizations such as Republicans are racist, democrats want open borders, blah blah. it really is sad we are not coming together against the real enemies and instead claiming warfare on each other. We are playing right into the hands of our foes by allowing them to divide and conquer us.

I certainly would be of no use to the fight as a 70+ YO woman who has never touched a gun. Of course I might be of use if I stayed but the situation in Ukraine is so vastly different due to their geography.
A woman I know has a sister in Poland who is taking in refugees as they move towards relatives and gives them a place to shower, Some matresses on a floor of her house to spend the night and hot meals and supplies to move on. so far it has been the old, the very young and their mothers.

All I do know is a bunch of us Regardless of political party that are sending her money and she is buying supplies to help them move to safety.

By the way I identify as an independent and have voted for Republican and Democrat presidents during my lifetime.

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Flowers, thank you for this post. A voice of compassion, sanity and reason is refreshing. I have just finished reading The Choice and The Gift by Dr. Edith Eger recommending it whole heartedly. Yes, this book review does belong on this forum. I will now step back into the observer role.

I don't know how a poll in Russia could be accurate. A news report I heard said that almost a hundred percent of the older Russian generations believed in Putin's spin of things, but it was only around forty per cent for the younger generations with access to digital and social media. My first impression of the Putin has to go comment was that he had to go by the means of the Russian people. Sensationalist global media obviously had a different take.

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Originally Posted by Rogar

I don't know how a poll in Russia could be accurate. A news report I heard said that almost a hundred percent of the older Russian generations believed in Putin's spin of things, but it was only around forty per cent for the younger generations with access to digital and social media. My first impression of the Putin has to go comment was that he had to go by the means of the Russian people. Sensationalist global media obviously had a different take.

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Was out picking up some stuff for work yesterday, NPR had some story about a former Russian, who started a software company over here, and uses Russian programmers. She got her business partner and 3 other people out, but has 35 employee's over there yet.
Any talk of antiwar sentiment, gets you locked up. FSB taking your phones and searching them, etc. Older generations, lived through the keep your thoughts to yourself thing.

Russia runs a formidable worldwide propaganda machine:
https://www.politico.eu/article/russ...nformation-rt/

Its purpose is to destabilize the West by dividing and inflaming their citizenry.