Very nice, Mrs-M - some belittling and gender issues thrown in. You truly are a piece of work, but you need to step down as moderator, clearly.
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Very nice, Mrs-M - some belittling and gender issues thrown in. You truly are a piece of work, but you need to step down as moderator, clearly.
Since the strawman argument is heading outside the US why don't we just look at the whole world rather than just a few carefully selected hot spots. (Humans live pretty much everywhere, right?) Here's a list of of 25 wars* that all began between 1990 and 1993, roughly 20 years ago. Sixteen of them were ongoing in 1992, exactly 20 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs-M
Now here's a list of the 9 wars* going on today. Sixteen down to nine. Hmmm.
*War being defined in both instances as a conflict that causes more than 1000 deaths per year. Not to trivialize any level of suffering, but you have to have some criterion that allows comparison on an apples to apples basis.
Hatred can not be quantified, but the results of hatred and greed show up in statistics like this. Hopefully this little detour is complete so we can get back to the issue at hand.
Gregg. You're old enough to remember the late 60's/70's (like myself), and do you not see the lessening of people helping others, like it used to be? Look at the incidents of road rage nowadays, something that didn't exist back then, and how about we back-up the clock some thirty years ago to assess drive-by shootings, mass-shootings, and whatever else we can find lurking within our common society today, then compare today's era with yesterdays, and see what you come up with.
I just don't get the sense that society, our world, or the people, are becoming more friendly of giving towards one another, yet we keep increasing the means for others to harm one another. Easy means may I add.
We seem to have two polarities on the topic. One is the crowd that has suggested several possibilities ranging from mild to radical reform. And another group who has found fault with everything suggested. Practically speaking, we are going to have the second amendment, and I believe the supreme court has stated that there is some room for jurisdiction and legislation around that amendment. Are you proposing that the existing state is good, and/or what would you call refining of our present course?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg
What is interesting, although very off topic, about the hot spots were that at least 2 were countries that had been destroyed by U.S. imperial wars. :\Quote:
Since the strawman argument is heading outside the US why don't we just look at the whole world rather than just a few carefully selected hot spots.
I believe the same.Quote:
Originally posted by Rogar.
I believe the supreme court has stated that there is some room for jurisdiction and legislation around that amendment.
Hey, Gregg, do post your thoughts on the first link I posted Re: Japan, and the tight gun-control laws they have, and how successful they are, and how they make for a much safer country and more balanced society.
And then......... you, Gregg, along-side, Bae, and any other pro-gun people... I'd like to hear from you as to the success the Second Admendment has offered the people of the US, and how it's made for a more safer and well-adjusted society. Oh, and then let's compare stats between the two countries to see who has the higher rate of deaths related to gun violence.
I keep hearing how gun-control laws do nothing to curb violence or gun-related deaths, so it would be interesting to cover that "hot topic" off (once and for all), now that we have all the stats right here in front of us to work from.
I see the "polarities" defined differently. One camp is proposing "reforms", but seems largely ignorant of the current state of the law and the real-world facts involving the area to be regulated. The other camp is arguing their position largely from an analysis of the facts and the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
Public policy changes done from emotion and a desire to "do something", without a rational analysis of the facts, tend to turn out poorly.
Indeed. And if you notice, there are currently thousands upon thousands of firearms laws and regulations in the USA.Quote:
Practically speaking, we are going to have the second amendment, and I believe the supreme court has stated that there is some room for jurisdiction and legislation around that amendment.
Our current situation is a mess, and in an ideal world we'd eliminate many of the redundant, conflicting, ineffective, or unenforced laws and regulations on the books, and produce a comprehensive model set of regulations. Like the Uniform Building/Fire Codes. I suspect this would result in more freedoms for firearms owners, more effectiveness and lower cost for law enforcement, and improved (though not perfect) ability to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals and crazy people.Quote:
Are you proposing that the existing state is good, and/or what would you call refining of our present course?
I find it absurd, for example, that to freely travel throughout most of the USA while legally carrying my licensed weapon, I have to keep in my wallet licenses from three different states, because of the changing-by-the-month web of interlocking reciprocity arrangements each state has with other states. I have to check with an app before I drive, to see if my route is legal this month or not. I don't have such worries with my drivers license, or my marriage license (unless I am gay.).
I'm not sure what we can do for cases like the Aurora killer, where the killer had no disqualifications, followed some pretty extensive regulations, and spent a long time planning his attack. It seems similar in ways to the recent Norway shootings on Utøya Island.
Bae, bearing in mind that we are not only talking about the Colorado incident, but other mass slayings and possibly gun violence in general, what specific proposals, if any, in the current guns regulations would you suggest that would reduce these. I have offered mine and they nor I are ignorant of the current laws and issues, though perhaps not perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
As a side comment, I have a friend who was arrested in California and charged with three gun related felonies. He was ignorant of California law and following what he considered would be legal in Colorado. They were not violence related. It is a long story. It cost him ten thousand in legal fees and several hours of community service after his charge was reduced to a misdemeanor.
What would you propose?