Obamacare, or, I might be up a creek w/o a paddle

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Originally Posted by try2bfrugal

So when 48 million people don't have health insurance, more people than the entire population of Canada, most of them working low income families, the sole reason as you see it is a lack of personal responsibility for all 48 million? Even though the majority do work, many are children, and one third don't have insurance because they lost their job?

The answer is to just tell all 48 million to take more personal responsibility, and the problem would be solved? Does that mean the U.S. shouldn't have any waiters, fast food workers, farm workers or retail store workers because most of those jobs do not come with health insurance?

Alan, if you lost your job tomorrow would you have health insurance?

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Very valid questions and points! Rob

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Originally Posted by try2bfrugal

So when 48 million people don't have health insurance, more people than the entire population of Canada, most of them working low income families, the sole reason as you see it is a lack of personal responsibility for all 48 million? Even though the majority do work, many are children, and one third don't have insurance because they lost their job?

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No, I was asking Rob specifically why he doesn't take personal responsibility for his desired services. He's told us hundreds of times how America doesn't work for him, I'm simply wondering if he feels a responsibility to work for America.
He's never given me any indication that his life circumstances are any different than mine or virtually everyone else I know, with all of us being able to care for ourselves and our families without suffering such severe disappointment with the rest of the country for not doing it for us.

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Alan, if you lost your job tomorrow would you have health insurance?

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Over the last 40 years I've done whatever it took to care for myself and my family and as a result have not lacked health coverage for a single day. If I lost my job tomorrow, I don't see that changing.

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Originally Posted by Alan

No, I was asking Rob specifically why he doesn't take personal responsibility for his desired services. He's told us hundreds of times how America doesn't work for him, I'm simply wondering if he feels a responsibility to work for America.
He's never given me any indication that his life circumstances are any different than mine or virtually everyone else I know, with all of us being able to care for ourselves and our families without suffering such severe disappointment with the rest of the country for not doing it for us.


Over the last 40 years I've done whatever it took to care for myself and my family and as a result have not lacked health coverage for a single day. If I lost my job tomorrow, I don't see that changing.

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Just curious Alan, have you priced an insurance policy pre-ObamaCare lately? Say you're one of the millions who have once held a decent paying job with benefits and now have to settle for nine dollars an hour with no benefits - you are supposed to afford health insurance how? I'm all ears as to your personal responsibility mantra works under these conditions.......Seems to me that under these conditions the most personally responsible thing you could do is to flee to a better country with socialized medicine and give up on the US altogether. Rob

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

.......Seems to me that under these conditions the most personally responsible thing you could do is to flee to a better country with socialized medicine and give up on the US altogether. Rob

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To me, that seems less like personal responsibility and more like opportunism. We're probably just defining things differently.

I guess, to your point, if you're determined to transfer the cost of your services to someone else, another country might be a reasonable starting point, so, carry on.

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Originally Posted by Alan

Over the last 40 years I've done whatever it took to care for myself and my family and as a result have not lacked health coverage for a single day. If I lost my job tomorrow, I don't see that changing.

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So without the ACA if you were unemployed and it took you a year to find a job, where would you get insurance from for that year and how much would it cost? Lets say your special needs grandson was living with you.

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Originally Posted by try2bfrugal

So without the ACA if you were unemployed and it took you a year to find a job, where would you get insurance from for that year and how much would it cost? Lets say your special needs grandson was living with you.

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As a family, we have spent the vast majority of those 40 years with double coverage. Not being a seer, I can't give you specific answers to your what if's, I can only say that if our history is any indicator of our future, I'll be fine. Not because the government will be my savior, but because we've gotten into the habit of taking care of ourselves.

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Originally Posted by Alan

As a family, we have spent the vast majority of those 40 years with double coverage. Not being a seer, I can't give you specific answers to your what if's, I can only say that if our history is any indicator of our future, I'll be fine. Not because the government will be my savior, but because we've gotten into the habit of taking care of ourselves.

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You don't have to be a seer. If you lost your job and your grandson was living with you, you wouldn't get family coverage for private pay because of pre-existing conditions. You could go on COBRA for 18 months, but it might cost you $1K to over $2 a month if you are 40+ and have a family. That is $12 - 24K for premiums alone for a year. Could you pay that easily?

Oops then you get into a car accident or develop cancer and can't work. You premiums are now $12 - $24K, you have a $10K out of pocket costs per year and your COBRA is running out. Now what? Time to take personal responsibility! Remember no running to the government for help.

Do you have some guarantee from God that nothing like this will ever happen to you or someone you care about?

I assume also you will be turning down your Medicare and SS benefits when you turn 65 because you don't want other taxpayers funding your retirement or health care in your old age.

Also you never answered my question on the 48 million in the U.S. without health care. Should we continue to let them all die of treatable diseases because they are low income? Should we do away with all the waiters, fast food workers, retail clerks and farm workers in the U.S. because they have jobs that don't have insurance? What is your solution?

Is lack of personal responsibility root the issue for all 48 million? Let's leave Rob out of this and just address the other 47,999,999 people in the U.S. without health insurance.

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You don't have to be a seer. If you lost your job and your grandson was living with you, you wouldn't get family coverage for private pay because of pre-existing conditions. You could go on COBRA for 18 months, but it might cost you $1K to over $2 a month if you are 40+ and have a family. That is $12 - 24K for premiums alone for a year. Could you pay that easily?

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well if you can't pay that easily you're up a creek anyway, because that's what rent costs every month. When I was unemployed health insurance was around $400 a month, of course rent continued to be a bit over $1000 a month. Now I could see that the problem is paying it AND rent, but rent would continue to be a larger concern for me.

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Originally Posted by try2bfrugal

Also you never answered my question on the 48 million in the U.S. without health care. Should we continue to let them all die of treatable diseases because they are low income? Should we do away with all the waiters, fast food workers, retail clerks and farm workers in the U.S. because they have jobs that don't have insurance? What is your solution?

Is lack of personal responsibility root the issue for all 48 million?

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Of course, there are many, many reasons 48 million people don't have health insurance. Personal responsibility, or lack thereof, does come into play for a certain percentage of those. Isn't that the sole reason for the individual mandate in the ACA? To force people to do what they should have been doing all along.