Frugality vs. values?

Like Catherine, when I buy organic it's more about the rest of the world than about me.

I grew up watching crop dusters spray fields with people in them. I drove by the "housing" that wasn't as nice as my summer camp "primitive" cabin. If it's labor intensive, I prefer to grow or pick it myself. I try to keep cost and impact down by buying local/direct/in season. But I'll buy conventional flour and make my own bread to put my non-organic locally grown u-pick strawberry jam on. My chickens produce eggs on table scraps, organic yard weeds, and convential grain.

Mostly, I think the more you know about where your food comes from, the better choices you can make. Try to get the most "bang for your buck"

ToomuchStuff:

"Frugality IS a value!"

Now that is an excellent point!

Right now I am only taking care of me and my dog. I am not married and I do not have kids. I just feed my dog Kirkland dog food from the Costco, good stuff but not fancy, and fruit veggie scraps in the kitchen. I try to eat simply and fairly healthy -- as many veggies as I can stand (which is not that much), fruits, nuts, legumes, whole grains, fish; I eat very little meat and not a lot of milk products.

For me I just think about how my emergency fund could grow if I ate less expensively.

I will say this, and I have mentioned this in another thread somewhere. As a lifestyle experiment, I lived on $1.50 a day in groceries for a week; that is $10.50 for a week. I ate lentils, rice, bananas, and carrots mostly -- and some Ramen. It actually wasn't that bad.

Being frugal doesn't mean you don't spend more on something, especially if it really IS a value for you. Being frugal is the practice of acquiring goods and services in a restrained manner (along with a lot of other definitions). I can buy flip-flops for 98-cents, but they don't last a year and they kill my feet. I would be penny wise and pound foolish if I was to only wear 98-cent flip flops and have to end up going to a doctor to have my poor feet treated for my frugal stupidity. I'll gladly pay for quality footwear (which can also be purchased at discounted prices) so I avoid trashing my feet. Frugal doesn't mean we are cheap, nor does it mean we are unwilling to pay for things that have lasting value.

As a compromise, if buying at Wal-Mart really is against your values, then use the other source for shopping. BUT, when you spend your food budget at a more expensive store, you don't just adjust your budget UP to accommodate the higher costs, you adjust what you spend it on. My food budget for 2 adults has been $125 for many years, and as prices go up, I adjust what I spend those food dollars on - not increase the amount I spend.

You might go every two weeks, or even go once-a-month, instead of every week to save on gas.

Good points Catherine.

I've been eating very little meat recently after watching a TED talk about animal rights. Somehow that particular presentation hit me like none other has - even though I've read lots of stuff about animal rights over the years.

There's so many angles to consider.

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Originally Posted by lessisbest

Being frugal doesn't mean you don't spend more on something, especially if it really IS a value for you. [snip]

As a compromise, if buying at Wal-Mart really is against your values, then use the other source for shopping. BUT, when you spend your food budget at a more expensive store, you don't just adjust your budget UP to accommodate the higher costs, you adjust what you spend it on.

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^^^ This. All this. :)

For us, being frugal does not mean always getting the cheapest item. We're willing to spend money on things we care about -- or to spend some more money to save money further down the road.

We do tend to buy organic food (for lots of reasons I won't go into here); we don't tend to buy much organic/free range/etc. meat but that's not so bad because we think the meat at the co-op tastes better than the cheaper stuff so less of it has the same impact. We also tend to make soups, stews, and stir-fries which don't depend on the presence of a big hunk of meat.

I'll spend more money up front on a more-efficient furnace that will use less fuel over time (lower total cost of ownership) or buy better wall paint because it goes on easier and lasts longer than the budget brands. I'll pay to have a good appliance repaired rather than just toss it and buy a flimsy new one. I'll spend a little extra to buy a product made and sold locally because I believe that's important.

I agree with catherine that we vote with our dollars. I want to make the few I spend count.

My general rule is to put planet and people first.

Sometimes I can't afford this (like when I buy plastic rain boots) but I try.

I try to mix this with frugality. Such as buying only natural fiber tops from the Thrift Shop.

Participating in the local Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) helps. The one in my town lets people work for free food if they can't afford the subscription.

Walmart is evil. It does not exist in my mind. That way, no decisions about how close, etc.

Cutting out gluten has really saved me from lots of low-nutrition carbs and $4 loaves of whole wheat bread. I have more energy when I eat just protein and produce.

Vitamins are important. I went to a nutritionist who had me get a blood test. The results told her exactly what vitamins and supplements I needed and which foods to avoid. (Starch is especially bad for my sciatica. 1 year of no starch and I am pain free.) She sells them to me at her cost plus 10%. I feel great and saved money on sciatica Rx and doctor visits.

You can eat cheaply on lots of carbs (rice, wheat, corn) and starch (potatoes, sugar) but it's bad for your body. Protein and produce. Eggs and tofu are cheap.

Good luck, OP!

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Originally Posted by profnot

Walmart is evil. It does not exist in my mind. That way, no decisions about how close, etc.

Good luck, OP!

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I live right by one of those ginormous ones, didn't want it, went to town meetings, it was a done deal before the discussion about what residents wanted even occurred.

I've boycotted them since well-before I had kids, so 20 yrs-ish? It has affected my life in no way by not shopping there, I do not think my grocery bill would be significantly lower if I went there. But that doesn't matter because I never will.

There are more companies with whom I should be doing the same, but Walmart, to me is cut and dried, no matter what they do, I will never be convinced to be a customer

I think lessons best has the right advice for the OP and I'd expand on that and suggest that you start tracking your expenditures a la YMOYL. From your other posts it sounds as though you are already pretty frugal, so it may be a situation where you will be reducing your amount of savings by shopping at the more expensive store. Seeing the changes in terms of hours of life energy spent for food under both scenarios vs amount of money saved to get out of your soul sucking job might help clarify to you which of your two, conflicting goals matters more to you. Both goals certainly have merit and over time I would suspect that both can be achieved but without looking at the numbers making a decision that works for you is likely to be difficult.

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Originally Posted by lessisbest

Being frugal doesn't mean you don't spend more on something, especially if it really IS a value for you. Being frugal is the practice of acquiring goods and services in a restrained manner (along with a lot of other definitions). I can buy flip-flops for 98-cents, but they don't last a year and they kill my feet. I would be penny wise and pound foolish if I was to only wear 98-cent flip flops and have to end up going to a doctor to have my poor feet treated for my frugal stupidity. I'll gladly pay for quality footwear (which can also be purchased at discounted prices) so I avoid trashing my feet. Frugal doesn't mean we are cheap, nor does it mean we are unwilling to pay for things that have lasting value.

As a compromise, if buying at Wal-Mart really is against your values, then use the other source for shopping. BUT, when you spend your food budget at a more expensive store, you don't just adjust your budget UP to accommodate the higher costs, you adjust what you spend it on. My food budget for 2 adults has been $125 for many years, and as prices go up, I adjust what I spend those food dollars on - not increase the amount I spend.

You might go every two weeks, or even go once-a-month, instead of every week to save on gas.

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This is better said, then my point which seemed to be missed. Yes, frugality is a value was caught, but my other point was your values evolve based on needs and circumstances. The example of who do you support being one (you may someday have kids, in which case having money for a longer period, may be a more important value, just in case thing, over views of a particular store).
As values evolve based on experiences and needs, continue self examining.

I think you shouldn't do anything that goes against your values, period.