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I was perfectly happy with the food I ate as a vegetarian--ethnic foods of all kinds. I enjoyed meat analogs like veggie burgers, so didn't really miss the real thing. It was the constant hunger and subsequent weight gain--a product of high insulin levels--the lethargy and roller-coaster blood sugars that finally sank my "Eat food, mostly plants." regime. I lasted six or seven years, but it's an experiment I wish I had nipped a few months in. As always, YMMV.
Actually, Catherine, the OP's question had to do with low-estrogen animal products that she could safely add back to her diet, hence my reply with information on such products.
While some people do very well on vegan diets, it is undeniably true that some do not. The OP said clearly she is unhappy with her current diet, and it has been pointed out that her health gains may be as much due to weight loss and reduction in junk foods as to veganism. She is conscious of health improvement, and wants to maintain good health. There's more than one way to do that clever thing! In the end, the OP will read the replies, check out the links, be aware of her own body's needs and responses, and craft her own health plan.
We have previously debated the global benefits of veganism, and I stand by my previous statements that veganism is a good option for reducing environmental harm if and only if the vegan is eating locally. The vegan who eats summer fruit in winter, flown in from the southern hemisphere, is as much a contributor to global warming as the SAD eater who chomps steak from CAFOs; if the lentils come from India, the quinoa from Peru, and the soyburgers are made from a mishmash of stuff that crisscrosses the USA multiple times before hitting the vegan's grill, the vegan's carbon and human misery footprint could be far larger than that of the conscientious omnivore. The vegan who chugs acai berry juice is a serious contributor to rainforest destruction, as each acai tree produces only 8kg of berries per year. A hungry farmer is not going to think twice before taking a chainsaw to the forest in order to plant a monoculture of acai, exactly as has happened with peanuts, cacao, palm oil, coffee, and countless other bubbles that trashed the local environment and economy, leaving everything worse off than before. In the same way, a conscientious omnivore eating locally and seasonally can have a positive impact on global ecological and economic conditions.
Oh gosh, I don't want to start the old debate again! I think that what works best varies from person to person and I don't want to be the source of anything negative.
To set a few things straight:
1. I've lost no more than 8 lbs eating this way.
2. I am getting a much higher amount of soy in my diet through various sources.
3. I am definitely not eating low fat or a junk free diet. Hummus and full fat tortilla chips, cookies, vegan margerine, etc. These things are my friends!
This experience has been challenging but totally do-able until the last three days when its seemed as though I hit a brick wall. My cravings have been extreme and no food substitution was satisfying. I'm an ex smoker-I know what will power is. I haven't had a cigarette in 12-13 years now. This sudden urge for meat has been intense. Dh cooked a turkey for work last night (something I could normally care less about) and it took everything I had not to start eating straight from the pan with my fingers. Frankly, part of me finds this humorous. I mean, I have to laugh at myself because its just food for god's sake.
So this morning I awake to signs that I might be ovulating and the cravings have subsided. So maybe this is just an ugly hormonal fluctuation? I don't know. I do feel like I'm back to the point I can continue with my experiment.
I feel so much healthier in just the past several weeks. I was to the point where I would take vicodin for menstural cramps and ovulation would give me pains that would cause me to gasp out loud when I least expected it. Last month I didn't take any meds at all. I can give up a lot if my quality of life continues to improve.
At the same time, I love a good steak, cheesy pizza and bowl of ice cream as much as the next person and the vegan subs are never, ever gonna match the real thing! I'd love to find a middle ground that will work as a long term solution. I told myself when I started this I was going to give it 6 months and decide what was next for me.
Suzanne: thank you for all the links and suggested reading. I need to read up on this so that I can attempt to make an informed decision about my long term eating habits.
One question I have about the paleo/low carb lifestyle-what are your concerns about things like heart disease, colon and reproductive cancers? There are a lot of statistics out there that claim that animal products greatly increase your chances of having these types of problems. Is there a difference between grass fed animals and feed lot animals when you look at these things? I have spent years looking at this from the "be a vegan or else" point of view that my mind is clouded when it comes to other info.
Please, I'd love to debate this a bit more if we could keep it to spefic bodily reprecussions and not about saving the world. We all know those issues but at the moment I'm feeling selfish and concerned about my body and health-not the planet's.
Thanks again for all the input. I'm going to go back and read it all again to make sure I didn't miss anything.
Hi BKE, I haven't abandoned you! I have midterms starting Friday, and have had a UTI - the antibiotics knocked me flat for three days, so I fell behind..
You've asked about heart disease, colon, and reproductive cancer. These are very valid concerns, which certainly require discussion. I will get back as soon as possible. In the meantime, I strongly recommend Gary Taubes' "Good Calories, Bad Calories." This is a pretty hefty book, but it is science-based; 5 years in the writing! Also, Malcolm Kendrick and Uffe Ravnskov (both have online presence) for material about heart disease. Another great source of information: "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Weston Price.
Pubmed.gov has a lot of information freely available; type in a keyword and prepare to be there for hours!
The Seventh Day Adventists are frequently cited as healthy - the Blue Zones book quotes the SDA spokesperson as saying that SDAs get all the same ailments as the general population, just a few years later than average. Also, studies on Latter Day Saints (Mormons) who follow very much the same lifestyle as SDAs, outlive SDAs handily despite Mormons eating meat and dairy products.
Most studies concluding that meat is bad for you appear to be drawn from samples who are eating the Standard American Diet, high in starch, sugar, and industrial seed oils. All three of these are proven harmful to health. Corn oil is very strongly associated with breast cancer, for example. Sugar has been known to be a potent cause of colon cancer since the 1940s. Refined starches generate belly fat through their ability to spike triglyceride production. It may not be the patty in the burger that's at fault - it could be the sugar-laden refined-starch bun, the sugar-laden dressing, and the potatoes fried in rancid seed oil.
Weird. Years of vegetarianism and I never had any cravings for meat. On a low fat diet I did have crazy fat cravings.Quote:
This sudden urge for meat has been intense. Dh cooked a turkey for work last night (something I could normally care less about) and it took everything I had not to start eating straight from the pan with my fingers. Frankly, part of me finds this humorous. I mean, I have to laugh at myself because its just food for god's sake.
Nowdays what I'll crave: sweets ocassionally ok, but it seems more often that that I'll get a craving for sour cream and things will lots of mayonaise. I eat adequate fat and still crave fat of the junkiest sort sometimes. Ah well :)
I think my body is just still adjusting from years of shall we say, different, eating habits. Those strong temptations seem to have passed for the moment.
For what it's worth, I don't think an occasional all natural chicken or egg would destroy your goals. Dairy and beef are notoriously hormonal though.
You may be getting more estrogen-like hormones in the large amounbt of soy products you eat then from having an occasional piece of cheese or butter (i.e. fat).
Are estrogens naturally occurring in all animal products? Are there estrogens in organic dairy products?
Estrogen in chicken and beef may be contributing to hormone-dependent cancers
Posted: May 23, 2010
News type:
Breast cancer study
Conference:
American Society of Clinical Oncology Meeting, June 2010
Study name:
Does dietary estrogen intake from meat relate to the incidence of hormone-dependent cancers?
A new study to be presented in early June at the American Society of Clinical Oncology annual meeting in Chicago has reported that U.S. chicken and beef contain relatively high levels of estrogen. Estrogen in oral contraceptive pills has been reported to contribute to the incidence of hormone-dependent cancers in women. However, there appears to be very little discussion concerning dietary estrogen from meat in relation to cancer incidence. In the study, concentrations of estradiol-17β (E2) and estrone (E1) were measured in beef produced in the U.S. and Japan (40 samples each), and chicken produced in the U.S., Japan, and Brazil (25 samples each). Fat and muscle meat were examined separately. For comparison, the authors also analyzed fat tissues of 25 postmenopausal Japanese women.
Estrogen levels were found to be higher in fat than in muscle meat. Median concentrations (picograms per gram (pg/g)) of estrogen in Japanese chicken fat (E2 = 21.1, E1 = 65.7) and in U.S. chicken fat (20.7, 54.6) were the highest of the samples assessed. U.S. beef fat also had a relatively high level (14.0, 7.7). However, Japanese beef red meat (0.0, 0.1) and Brazilian chicken muscle meat (0.2, 0.4) were found to incorporate nearly zero levels of estrogen, and the estrogen levels in their fat were also low. The high E2 levels in Japanese and U.S. chicken exceeded the levels found in the fat of Japanese women (16.3). On the other hand, levels in meat with low estrogen content were a hundred times lower than in human fat.
The authors comment that the high estrogen concentrations in Japanese and U.S. chicken, as well as U.S. beef, have been attributed to the residue of external estrogen in the feed given to the livestock. [B]The nearly zero level found in Japanese beef and Brazilian chicken may be considered the natural amount found in meat without estrogen supplementation.[/B] The estrogen levels found in U.S. chicken and beef are much lower than those of contraceptive pills. However, estrogen intake from meat consumption cannot be dismissed as a factor governing human health, according to the authors, considering lifetime exposure to such meat. The authors conclude that dietary estrogen intake from meat might promote estrogen accumulation in the human body and could influence the incidence of hormone-dependent cancers.
Comments concerning the study
Some may find the study results surprising with respect to chicken since currently there no hormones approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for poultry. However, estrogen may be introduced in the form of soy protein and animal protein meal in chicken feed and possibly other sources. Based on the available evidence, breast cancer patients, survivors and those at high risk should consider avoiding beef and pork and limited their poultry consumption to organically grown birds, preferably raised without soy-based feed and in humane conditions.
Tags: beef, breastCancerRisk, chicken, estradiol, estrone, foods, Japanese, Latina
Formatting added by me!
Note that this paper suggests that the high estrogen content of US beef and poultry meat and fat may be caused by the high soy content of the feed. Chickens and cattle not supplemented in this way have almost zero estrogen content in their tissues. To me it looks pretty simple - boycott CAFO animal products and buy locally from a humane, sustainable, pasture-based operation.
Regarding dairy produce: there are farmers who do not use hormones to keep milk surging. Again, pasture-based is going to have a much better profile, especially of fats. Any pregnant mammal produces estrogen. The ideal would be milk from perennial dairy cows; these are cows who give birth, are milked for four years, dried off, and impregnated. A cow does not have to give birth every year to produce milk; as long as feed supply is adequate and demand is ongoing, she will continue to lactate.