Quantify this statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
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Quantify this statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
No matter what having more kids means more complications. Sure, you can tell them all: "Only one sport!" But if you have one kid in 3 sports I bet you will be less busy than with 3 kids in one sport each.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
I wasn't bashing. Was someone here bashing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
I am not CL but I remember someone on a website making a profound statement about bringing children into the world, and it is that suddenly you know what is important beyond all else. Nurturing and caring for one's children is The Goal. All of the other stuff is not important.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight
That makes sense to me even if the ongoing daily complexities of life with small beings in the house seems overwhelming. One main reason I did not have children is the complexity. I like things simple, that is, unless I choose a short term goal that makes my life (temporarily) complex.
Well, for example, I had three kids in one sport - swimming. So I had many many days when I knew my whole day would be spent sitting in bleachers. I would tell the kids to let me know when their event was coming up, and then I had the rest of the day to read or knit. I didn't get involved in a bunch of things that made demands outside of their time slots or have to navigate difficult (for me) social situations because "oh, I can't, we have swimming."
also, many hands make light work. Canning applesauce for example was a fun, all day family activity. So was cutting and stacking wood. It was easier to keep the fire going. One person can cook dinner for five almost as quickly as one person can cook dinner for two, and the person wasn't always me. When they could drive, they did some of the errands.
Btw, if you have three kids in one sport each, you will go insane. You clearly do not understand the scheduling of kids sports these days. With one kid in three sports, at least no one thinks you should be in three places at once - you just go where the kid goes.
I am not convinced at all. More kids = more complex life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
I have one dog. When I first started living with my sister and BIL back in 2013 they had two dogs. When they would go on vacation I would have to care for all three dogs. Believe it. My life was made more hectic by dealing with all three. Whereas one dog is much, much more manageable.
Each kid made my life less simple. That's true. Then each grew up. Now I'm back to simple.
I kept it as simple as possible with kids at home. I was way more simple than most families with kids. But the kids deserve their own lives. One chose to store everything important to him in his bedroom, including spare tires for his car. I just shut the door - it was his space. 😄
Kids are not dogs. Harlan will never switch over the laundry and cook dinner because your bike broke down. You will have to walk your bike home and still do your laundry and make dinner. The dogs will not take care of each other either.
it would complicate my life more to tell my mother in law "sorry I won't see you on Saturday. I want to go somewhere else and read a book."
also, when I had kids at home, other moms provided a mutual support system - which is technically more complex than just solving all your own problems, but not harder.
Dogs are not kids! Very true. Lemme go ahead and win this argument real fast...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
Harlan costs a lot less than a kid. His medical bills are lower from birth to cremation. He won't harass me for an iPhone, a computer, college tuition, etc.
He will probably only live to be 14, at most. He does not require daycare or a babysitter except for rare occasions. Harlan won't try drugs or alcohol and have to get sent to rehab. Harlan does not need taken to school or any sports or piano lessons.
A dog is a lot less complicated than a kid in every way I can think of. But as my previous story illustrates -- more dogs means more complications. And since kids are more complicated than dogs, more kids means even more complications.
Why not just own up to it?
Just because more kids means more complications does not mean you are a bad person for having them. It just means you'd rather not have a simpler life and/or smaller ecological footprint.
I could eat things like bananas, raw carrots, bowls of cereal with milk, and so forth. If I did, I would have a simpler life. But I like complex flavors with layers and herbs and spice. So I am learning to cook and had to buy kitchen utensils and equipment. My life is more complicated because of this, but I also like the food more than bowls of cereal.
I just own this.
Sure, some other minimalist might say: "That is so complicated!"
And I say: "Yeah, it is. But I like it more than eating the same boring stuff all the time."
So why not say? "Yeah, having a bunch of kids is more complicated. But I am not lonely, I have people to love and probably love me, and I was able to create meaning in my life in an easier way than striving for something far-fetched and much harder."
Or whatever you'd say in your words with your points.
Kids are complicated, but in a way that is more satisfying and remarkable than anything else I can imagine. Part of me feels sorry for people who have never experienced the joy and frustration of children and grandchildren, they make life so much.... more. I might never have known that there was something more important in life than me, everyone should have the opportunity to learn that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight
This is an answer that I can accept.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
But I still want to remain child-free.
I didn't know we were having an arguement about wether or not kids made your life more complex. Of course they do. Underwear makes your life more complex. I simply was trying to explain, as asked, how my life with kids at home was simpler than my life with kids grown and gone.
First, I never disagreed with your ecological arguement. (Although, I think being a parent made my life less impactful, but not enough to compensate for the impact of even one of the humans I helped add to the planet)
and second, I said my life was simpler "in some ways"
yes, kids are more expensive than dogs. Hopefully they are around longer. No kids and no dogs are obviously even cheaper.
there are a variety of social and economic roles that I need other people to fill. Some of them used to be filled by my kids (we just hired people to do drywall. As a severe introvert this disrupted my life and stressed me out. Last time we did drywall, we used our home grown crew. Pretty sure it was cheaper, definitely far less stressful, totally on my schedule.) also, as stated, raising kids made it SIMPLE for me to avoid many societal expectations that I wished to avoid. Yes, I can still avoid them, but without the socially acceptable excuse, people tend to make it difficult and complicated.
so in some ways my life was simpler. It was also more expensive and more complex (although richer - like your food analogy). The complexities and demands of raising kids were for the most part more pleasant for me than the complexities and demands of being an empty nester in American society. I was only a childless adult for 5 years, and I was mostly in school or working poor, so no real useful data on my life there.
Last night we concluded a course of this NWEI program with a potluck. Here is picture of this course's itty bitty community of simple living folks.
Attachment 2610
Everyone is smiling except one unhappy person. :D
Looks like someone poked him in the eye.Quote:
Originally Posted by herbgeek
Good to see someone has a very simple spoon/fork combo utensil on a bring your own real plate (not styrofoam) but that looks like a disposable water bottle at the edge of the photo. Someone failed the course! Start over!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight
That is fairly accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
That is my sporknife.Quote:
Originally Posted by Float On
That bottle is one the guy actually reuses.
My second choice was that someone had taken minimalism too far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight
Ummm, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
I had to have an ophthalmological surgery done. And things like the numbing drops and lidocaine don't work on me. And I told them this. So when they started the procedure I asked: "Do you have any tongue suppressors?"
The nurse said: "No... no we don't. But I can give you a wad of gauze to bite down on."
She stuffed that in my mouth. And lemme tell ya... I needed it. It was like civil war surgery.
UL, I had something similar twice. I once stepped on a sewing needle imbedded into shag carpet. The entire thing was in my heel. They had to cut the heal open to pull it out. The numbing didn’t work and they were too busy to wait for another shot to take effect. When I had my first child the shot they gave me for the episiotomy froze my foot instead. So I was sewn up with no numbing. Not fun.
Dang!! That sounds bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
I just had a really bad stye that would not go away. So the doctor was like: "Let's cut!" haha
If only the needle incident had happened just prior to delivery - you would have been all set for that needle removal. 😄
Tammy, I never thought of that! In the delivery incident I was only 19 and the doctor had no clue until it was over and he accidentally bumped my foot and was horrified. He asked why I didn’t say anything. I was young and scared. Back then your husband couldn’t be in the delivery room.
It's a shame this event wasn't a month and 5 days ago. You could have seriously rocked the pirate guy look for Halloween! Arrrgh!
I thought about that too. hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by jp1
What sucks is that my depth perception is bad with the patch. When I am not wearing the patch my eye's bloody/weepy condition impairs my vision.
I hope I will be better in about 4 days, like ool' sawbones said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight
Nice pic of a great looking crew.........
MBS's thug was your doctor???Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight
You only know what you know. So you join a class, read a book and talk to a friend. You do this a lot, let it rest, change a little and then start the process over again. We all do it differently … over time it becomes a new habit and way of life and you don't really miss what you had or did not have before the idea of simple living came your way. More women in the class does not surprise me at all … its the way we think and are socialized. Nothing wrong with this, and nothing wrong processing differently. Its just one more way we gain information to create change in our lives. I think it is a great idea to facilitate a class … even though its all women :-). I think the real questions is how to engage those not participating.
Also, remember all those women probably have someone in their lives that are male, or an introvert or whatever and are modeling/sharing their experiences. So they will have influence on other folks and your class will reach further than you think. I am so thankful that a group of women came together to work on budgeting 20 years ago and my simple life began to take shape.