I take it you didn't catch that health care was just one of the issues that my family in Austria worries about? RobQuote:
Originally Posted by dmc
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I take it you didn't catch that health care was just one of the issues that my family in Austria worries about? RobQuote:
Originally Posted by dmc
It is a beautiful country, it really is. There is one city in Austria - Linz- that was once the industrial powerhouse of Austria but now it's seen better days as manufacturing has moved elsewhere (though it's no Detroit) but the rest of the country is scenic and in my mind definitely worth a visit. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by dmc
No it's just seems to be one of your biggies. And I'd be worried about my relatives also if they lived in some of the areas of this country. But there is a big difference from some of the crime ridden inner cities and most of the rest of the country.
Id be very concerned if I was counting on a pension from Illinois. Pensioners may be looking at reduced amounts. I don't see the Feds bailing them out.
Wow.....after our many disagreements here you have posted something I agree with 100%! I agree completely with both the probability of reduced pension amounts in Illinois (imagine the blizzard of lawsuits that will produce!) and I also believe that the Feds, especially with Trump and the GOP running the show, will not be bailing them out, either. Matter of fact I am concerned about public employee pensions EVERYWHERE in the US - though I understand that Illinois is ground zero for this issue and serves as the most extreme example. My point is that Illinois is not the only state with pension funding issues, though, as I've said, it is currently in the worst shape with this. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by dmc
I've heard this too - that property tax bills in New Jersey are responsible for many more moving vans leaving NJ than arriving in NJ, and that the cost of living/assorted taxes and fees in NJ are economically strangling the state. Lots of moving vans leaving NJ I understand are headed for the South or Texas......lower taxes and fees but there is a trade off in lower services provided too, but even I can understand when faced with insane property tax bills the desire for much lower property tax bills like those I face in Arizona.....mine are slightly under $1,000 a year to give some reference. But on a state level you are pretty much on your own and spending per student here in the public schools is among the lowest in the nation on a per capita basis. Like anything else, it's a trade-off. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by catherine
Yes, seniors can't afford their own homes once they retire. It's another big reason why DH and I will probably move north to VT within a couple of years, although VT doesn't have a great record with property taxes either. It's got to be better than NJ, though. I met a guy who pays $32,000 in property taxes. And he's not superwealthy--he works for a pharmaceutical company. Just a corporate slob paying almost $3,000 a month just for the privilege of raising his family in NJ.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
True. The federal reserve only bails out ginormous banks because capitalism. Or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by dmc
Catherine, I hope any of our regular conservative posters here don't go into immediate cardiac arrest over what I am about to post....BUT...under those conditions, $3000 a month in property taxes? I would be packing a moving van too, and I'm someone who believes in taxes and social welfare spending, as you'all must know by now. Thing is, there comes a point where taxation becomes strangulation, EVEN I GET THIS. $3000 a month in property taxes for a non wealthy person crosses that line in my book.....I could totally understand this family packing up for the flatlands around Dallas or maybe suburban Atlanta to get out of this level of taxation. Once again, even I get this.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
Let me give you a comparison point if I may. I was at the public library recently reading the Wall Street Journal (which actually has interesting non-business articles) and there was a page recently showing what type of house you could buy for $1 million in a few cities, Phoenix being one of them. $1 million gets you a huge house here, in an extremely upscale area....but here's my point. The property taxes on this $1 million house in a very posh area of town? $4K ANNUALLY.....a huge difference from what you are talking about in NJ. Once again....much lower level of state services in Arizona, this is true, but who can realistically afford $3K A MONTH for property tax unless they are 1%'ers? I can see why so many people leave the Northeast, I really can........There comes a point where this can't be sustained, which is where Illinois seems to be at right now. Rob
Not all the Northeast is like this Rob. I pay $2830 a year in property taxes, possibly a little less. The bill I just got is an estimate, to be trued up in January, and they estimate high as they start collecting.
True, it's a NJ thing, (not sure where you live, Yppej), and I don't pay anywhere near 32k. As I said, I'm lucky to pay under 10k, but I don't pay much under 10k.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Property tax isn't necessarily the whole tax story since state income and sales taxes also vary from state to state. Relative property valuations matter, too. I still suspect the coastal states have a higher tax burden. Colorado has relatively low property taxes, plus there is a provision that people over 65 who have lived in their home for at least the last 10 consecutive years get a huge property tax break. The over 65 provision seems to come up on the chopping block routinely but is current for now. I don't know that our schools and general infrastructure are worse or better compared to other places.
I have to wonder what people get in return in states with high taxes. Out of ignorance, I'd tend to suspect mismanagement or graft, but it probably has a more rational explanation.
Rogar one thing we "get", besides graft, is more local control. I am in Massachusetts where instead of county governments we have 351 municipalities. There are a few regional school districts of 2 or 3 towns, but for the most part we do not enjoy economies of scale. Every town AKA fiefdom has its own slew of pensioned positions for big fish in little ponds.
Pennsylvania lawmakers are paying attention to the pension crisis. The Governor.....a democrat with a republican house and senate signed into law a pension reform act that moves future state employees and public school teachers into 401(k) plans. This effectively places the risk entirely on employees for under performing markets rather than tax payers.
However, at the time of the pension fund raids....the markets were over performing to the tune of 15% plus. So lawmakers stole the money and used it for personal favors and vote purchasing. The debt that exists now should be placed smack dab on lawmakers from two decades ago. Unfortunately, unless the current debt is paid off, even the pension reform act will have virtually no ability to improve the situation. This years budget is expected to be unbalanced and 2 billion may need to be borrowed to meet spending.
Defaulting on pensions or even reducing annuities would be hazardous to the health of politicians and disastrous to the economy. A bailout is almost assuredly in the "too big to fail" category. Since it was theft which caused it....."tar and feathering" might be once again common in Pennsylvania.
No, you don't get what multiple other posters do.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
Complain, complain,(to infinity here, because you don't do something about it) but then quit and do something about it.
I talk to a former Austrian regularly. My neighbor, whose siblings are some sort of musical group over there. While your family may feel one way, certainly not everyone see's it that way. What don't we get, we don't get that in a simple living forum, you do everything in your power to NOT change something that you have the power to change, to "live simply, and with less stress", and it stress's us out. (hard to feel empathy for self destructive people)
I'd hardly call rob's behavior self destructive. And I'd suggest that someone who gets stressed out by other people's actions needs to remember that old poem about changing the things you can and letting go of the things you can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToomuchStuff
Personally I've always taken rob's complaints to mean that he really really would rather stay in the US but that he admits that certain aspects of life elsewhere are actually better. Maybe I've misunderstood. I'll let him offer up his thoughts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
You mention stress and then say you don't see self destructive behavior, what do you think stress does to a person. I don't see him saying he wished he lives here, but wants another country entirely.
As for letting go, well there is an ignore function, but that is the ONLY thing he can do as a moderator, avoid being on the ignore list and not use it as well.
I live in Boston and pay way less than $2830. My jaw drops when I see what some people pay for property taxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
In Pennsylvania property tax reform is in the forefront of legislative efforts in a bi partisan way. SB 76 changes the way public schools are funded. Currently each year every property owner is taxed based on the appraised value of their existing residence or business. Certain urban areas have such high taxes that people are unable to sell their houses at market value. The population is dispersing to rural areas. Those on pensions and social security are unable to keep up with tax increases.Quote:
Originally Posted by creaker
SB 76 abandons real estate taxing for public schools and adopts an increase and expansion of sales tax and authorizes public schools to tax personal income. Proponents say this is a fairer way to support public schools.
Honestly, if my posts are so upsetting to you, Too Much Stuff, this begs the question: Why have you not used a blocking/ignoring feature to poof - make me and my awful posts go buh bye? I'm really curious as to this, please illuminate me if you would be willing to do so. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by ToomuchStuff
Our property taxes are very low especially if your home is old. Our home is valued at 300k yet we only pay 700/year in taxes. No state income tax either. Schools are terrible-right near the very bottom and other services not good or available. I think if states change to 401k's then people will think twice about being a public servant or teacher since you usually get a smaller salary in exchange for a pension. Both my DH and I could have made more $ in the private sector. Our state has raised the minimum retirement age with no penalty and if you were hired at 2010 you won't get health insurance when you retire. We pay a ton of $ for our health insurance with the state. Active employees get a deal but they really stick it to the retirees.
I thought--still do, in fact--my property taxes were outrageous at $5K plus, but that pales next to $10K or more. I joke that we pay more here for views, and the roads, libraries, schools, etc. are well-kept. But still...
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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
Said multiple times. That is the only thing since the forum went into private ownership, that the moderator title provides. (hardwired into the software)Quote:
Originally Posted by ToomuchStuff
I miss Steve Goodman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
I see Illinois finally has a budget with a major tax increase. They had to override the Governor's veto. From what I'm reading, they're still under threat of credit downgrades from the major agencies.
So, what is a fair price for you to pay? If $5 k is too much, what is reasonable? Should the people up the road with a bigger house pay at a higher rate? Not more, because of. Ourse they will pay more, but should their taxation rate be higher?Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
what about all of those library workers and their pensions, would ypu deny future library workers the same pensions?
Really, who are you to say that your own money is your own?!!!