On my last excursion most shoppers were wearing masks, no store staff were. It is optional where I live. Inventory is unpredictable. I had to go to 3 stores over a 2 week time period to find a Mother's Day card for instance.
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On my last excursion most shoppers were wearing masks, no store staff were. It is optional where I live. Inventory is unpredictable. I had to go to 3 stores over a 2 week time period to find a Mother's Day card for instance.
Just got back from a trip to the grocery store. Not too bad. A little more crowded than I would have liked, but MOST people were very nice. List of 16 items and got 11, and way higher than a normal grocery trip.
Edited to add - everyone I saw had a mask on and a good number had gloves as well.
We just got back too, Happystuff. No line to get in and only a small line had formed as we were leaving. Seems like arriving at 8:00 - 8:30 is a good time. The only thing on our list that we couldn't get was flour. I am once again living in the land of plenty as far as TP goes! I forget to check sanitizer and disinfecting products since we don't need any. I didn't notice a single person without a mask and many were wearing gloves. There were a couple of people wearing masks not covering their noses or mouths, which I find far more perplexing than no mask at all. There was one woman who seemed like she might have some kind of issues, asking other customers and employees about where things were and her mask was under her chin. I heard another customer nicely explaining to her that she should have mask on correctly and not pull it down to talk, etc. but several aisles later, I could see that the advice did not take hold. People like that are a bit disturbing because they pose a threat to others as well as themselves, and there probably isn't any ill intent there, just doing their best which isn't good enough.
Probably wanted to look people in the eye....Quote:
Originally Posted by rosarugosa
:laff::DQuote:
Originally Posted by SteveinMN
:laff: One of those who sees through her eye teeth...
Unless you're wearing an N-95 mask you are posing a risk to others.
And then you are probably posing a risk to others because some health care person doesn't have one, am I right? All one can do is the best they can with what masks they are able to acquire or make, but first priority is limiting trips.
I have a very heavy coworker, probably 400 pounds, and her town is mandating masks at stores. She gets overheated with one on and has trouble breathing in the grocery store. The mask scolds need to stop. If it's not N-95 it's useless anyways.
Beg to differ. A homemade cloth mask or a scarf may not be an N95. But it works on multiple levels, to restrict some of whatever the wearer may be exhaling (which is not limited to this coronavirus) on others or on surfaces like desks and shelves and turnstiles; to help the wearer not touch their face (another mode of transmission), and, honestly, to indicate a little respect for others (that their comfort level matters, at least a little bit).Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
All of it is better than nothing. I'm very aware that many things we have been told to do during this pandemic, after 9/11, etc. are "security theater". But there's actual science behind this and current demonstrations of the value of this almost anywhere you look around.
As I've read reports, there will be exceptions for your coworker -- or masks which may be more suitable for her even if they're not as effective as an N95. One would hope your coworker wants at least some level of protection for herself, just as the comfort of your customers calls for the steps that can be taken.
You need to do some actual education on this as you are incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
The issue is coronavirus. If we're worried about every microbe out there we'll all be wearing masks to the end of time after covid is long gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinMN
The idea that we can't touch our loved ones when they're dying to say goodbye is bad enough, but now we can't even touch our own bodies. I touch my face every day. I wash it, I put makeup on, I put in contact lenses and take them out. Maybe I should be fined or arrested?
To indicate respect - aka a placebo effect - what we're trying to get beyond with all the trials underway that are scientific not feel good in approach.
Is it really better than nothing? Is more even if it's feel good pablum always better than less if it is "for the public good"? That's seems like the hallmark of totalitarianism, and a way to distract the people from the real issues with things like testing. If it's restricting, it's hot, it causes the very people at greatest risk of the virus breathing difficulties, it fogs up glasses and impairs vision, it leads to littering in store parking lots of biohazard waste, it is an added expense when our economy is being gutted, and it has little to no benefit as we were all told before the government decided it had to make it look like it was doing more, it is counterproductive.
Here's an idea - if you're terrified of stores don't go shopping instead of trying to dictate what other shoppers do. Let someone in a lower risk group bring your food to you. Volunteers are doing this around the nation.
Well there are actual studies on mask effectiveness. I have never seen anywhere where store parking lots were littered with masks.
I have seen both masks and gloves in store parking lots, and used gloves in carts.
I am struggling to understand what exactly you are feeling so strongly about. If wearing a mask makes me feel better and more secure, so be it. If wearing a mask makes my neighbour feel that s/he is helping protect me and you, so be it.
There are major issues to be concerned about in the world today but people wanting to do and feel that they are doing whatever is best and helpful in dealing with the virus is not something to be concerned about, IMO anyway.
Here is an article on masks as magical thinking.
https://www.infectioncontroltoday.co...ainst-covid-19
If people want to wear masks or bananas on their head or anything else go ahead, just don't tell me I have to.
It’s allergy season I am sneezing despite being on 3 medications. I sneezed twice in a store with my mask on and my arm in my sleeve. I kept my germs to myself. It’s considerate. I have asthma and can’t wear one for long periods of time.
Interesting how you cherry pick a single article against it. Did you read it? Did you notice this statement? "She recently cowrote an opinion piece"Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
That is not science. Your understanding of the principles of not passing germs around is interesting.....if not jaded. Just in case you might actually be interested in learning about preventing the spread, here are some articles:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...coverings.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...ace-cover.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...cover-faq.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...d-spreads.html
Is there no grey in that black-and-white world?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
The common cold and even the annual outbreak of influenza very seldom leave people on ventilators. Those coronaviruses don’t take up to two weeks to infect their next victims and they rarely are asymptomatic for those who have them. This is a different beast. No one has a natural immunity to this virus until they've had it. Science isn't even sure at this point how much immunity is gained from living through it -- or how long that immunity remains. SARS-CoV-2 is more serious than anything humans have faced in about four years, and far less controlled in its spread. If you think it's being oversold after all the numbers in the news and videos of distraught families and watching Disneyland and Las Vegas shut down entirely, I do not know what else might convince you.
I agree that it's horrible that people dying of this virus typically die alone. But I don't know who is telling you that you can't touch your own body. Touch your arm. Touch your ankle. No biggie -- they're not so close to the tissues of the body (nose, mouth, eye) where the virus can start its work. Wash your hands properly and you can do anything you want with any part of your body. Do you wash your hands before you put in your contact lenses? Why bother, eh? While you may be in the presence of the virus, it's in your interest to not introduce it to your nose, mouth, or eye -- or to anyone else's.
Are you an anti-vaxxer, too?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
I'm not sure what's eating you up about this but something certainly is. So a mask is inconvenient. Yes, it fogs up my glasses, too. I have to walk back into the house every time I leave to go somewhere because having a mask on me is not yet an automatic action; I have to go back and pick one up. But I wear one because it works. I have no trouble getting enough oxygen to breathe through a mask. I see lots of people wearing them; they're not all turning blue from being unable to oxygenate and I have little difficulty hearing what people say through them. And the masks are protecting people so we have fewer inadvertent carriers of the virus from reaching those with considerable risk factors.
Don't want to wear a mask? What's next? Shall we let people race down streets at whatever speed they want and ignore the stop signals? After all, that 30 mph stuff and all that stopping -- it's just wasting my time.
I looked at your CDC links Steve. The very first one states that wearing of cloth face coverings should be voluntary. The articles state N-95 masks should be saved for healthcare providers. That's because they are the ones that actually protect against the size particles in Covid-19. Cloth masks don't.
The article I posted is by a scientist and professor with a doctorate. I doubt she is an anti-vaxxer and neither am I. Vaccines work. Cloth masks are a feel good measure that people are using to justify going out when they do not need to, which is the real risk. Go to Georgia and get a haircut, pedicure and tattoo and you'll be okay just wear a mask is the mindset.
Sometimes, to give everyone peace of mind and sense of security, it pays to go along with the activity to protect public health as suggested. Besides, not doing so could negatively reflect on the business that employs you.
Razz no one at work is making people wear masks, even the frontline workers which I am not. This thread is about masks in grocery stores. I do not work in a grocery store.
I think we were originally told not to wear masks due to supply issues, but it does make sense to me that the non-N95 masks are at least somewhat helpful. DH and I both have varying degrees of COPD, and I find some masks uncomfortable and make me feel like I'm being smothered. I have some "duckbill" style masks and those are much more comfortable. Yppej, you might want to suggest to your co-worker that she be on the lookout for that type of mask.
"Mask shaming" kind of implies this is in the same category as shaming someone for physical characteristics they cannot help. I'm all for using social disapproval to encourage the appropriate behavior when it impacts the well-being of others.
Any mask, worn properly, is more protective than nothing.
Masks with nose adjusters and proper filters can be made that rival commercially-manufactured ones. YouTube has videos produced by doctors that give directions.
They're Gardnr's links, but I'm just pointing that out. I haven't looked at them myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
The first link is old. I wish TPTB had been more straightforward about the matter and flat out said, "N95 masks are better, but let's save them for now for people with greater front-line exposure." That could have been handled much better imo.
Coincidentally, as I write this, Ms. Brousseau was on a report the local news is showing on TV. Apparently her comment on today's news report is that she's not against the wearing of cloth masks but against the requirement to wear one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
I think we will have to agree to disagree here. I am not maintaining that a cloth mask is the equivalent of an N95; I'm not aware of any standup research that shows that it is. I believe a cloth mask is of some help in aspects of disease control -- enough that those benefits outweigh the inconvenience of wearing a mask and any perceived violation of rights that being required (or "shamed") by a business entity to wear one presents.
I have only a little idea of what's going on in the heads of Georgia's political leadership; I believe it comes down to a relative comparison of the value of human life and the value of a fully-functioning economy (disconcerting given the emphasis by many in the same group on human life at pre-viable phases). I do not believe slapping on a cloth mask makes it possible to fling open the doors of a comatose economy. I will concede that there's much we don't know about how to manage the risks of this coronavirus.
I will wear a mask in public. I believe its value to everyone outweights the expense to me. I realize we won't all make that same decision.
In a mask-making video, the doctor tested his finished product similarly to the way N95 masks are--by trying to smell bacon through it. (Medical tests involve a sugar substitute). It passed. That's good enough for me.
There are many reasons that people may have difficulty wearing masks. I agree with Yppj, it's a good idea to keep this mind as we are out in the world looking about at our fellow human beings as we all suffer through a difficult time. A good time to try to avoid shaming.
The data available and the supply chain both are highly fluid. Therefore the recommendations change, sometimes on a daily basis. This is the case in my hospital as well. It’s difficult for people to accept this, as they believe it means they are being misled. The truth is that no one knows many things about this new virus, so the recommendations will change. Lots of unknown variables.
People believing they are being misled by stuff coming from our Federal government which is under Trump at this point is not entirely irrational (under Trump! some valid info my get through of course from Fauci and the like, but under Trump! Really nuff said!!!). However what I've read on masks is things like a surgical mask protects from 60-80%, and that's a surgical mask not an N95, so saying only N95s protect just seems wrong. Even a 2 layer cotton bandana protects to some degree I've seen 18%. I have to say I don't think the smell test is a valid one though.
Medical personnel have to fit their masks to their face in some kind of chamber, and then a sugar substitute is piped in. If they can taste it, the mask isn't fitted properly. At least that's what I've read.
Wearing a mask is a small thing that might help. No reason not to do it.
You are correct. An N95 mask is ONLY effective if it the proper size. We actually go through an annual process called "fit testing". If a SEAL cannot be obtained, it is not an effective mask. Someone with a beard will never have a seal. Some very lean faces may not get a seal.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
The public buying and using them is a ridiculous waste of resources-both a wasted mask and the $. Patients who really need them are fit-tested for proper protection.
Facts matter!
I'm wondering if body glue would solve any fitting problem.
I have another coworker who works a second job where masks are required. His big beard pushes the mask up over his eyes so they told him to tie an old T shirt over his nose and mouth, not kidding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardnr
I heard on the radio this morning that a woman wearing a mask could not breathe and passed out while driving, causing a car accident. So bully for you that you have no problem breathing when masked.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinMN
Today my governor signed an order that will fine people out in public without a mask if within 6 feet of someone so I guess I will have to wear one to stores because while I keep 6 feet away from others there are idiots who don't keep 6 feet from me and I could be blamed.
I'm sorry life is so hard for you right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Harder for others than me and it will get worse with summer coming. Just watch how many people with underlying medical conditions pass out from heatstroke when it's 90 degrees out and they're forced to wear masks.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinMN
Early on in this pandemic I watched a video of the icu in Britain where they were innundated with covid patients. One of the problems, they said, was that people could only work so long with masks on, and some of the staff could not work at all with masks on, it was so anxiety-producing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
These are trained, skilled medical professionals, and there were staffing problems at the hospital because of this factor.
I have also read on military boards about people who cannot wear masks because of PTSD.
Many of us with COPD do very, very poorly wearing a mask.
I don't think it's fair to measure the behavior of others by what comes easily for the viewer; like any number of physical and mental things, these conditions are not immediately visible to those who are saying, "just wear a mask."
And add summer to the mix; it's going to be bad.
Physically went into a grocery store for the first time in almost two months. I was going to farm market and noticed grocer had just a few cars in parking lot so decided to stop on the way. They had big bags of dried beans in bulk section. I got split peas, lentils, black, navy, kidney and black eye peas. Also they had whole wheat and Unbleached flour, oatmeal and organic brown rice. I felt like I hit the jackpot. All the stuff I haven’t been able to get. They had quite a bit of meat, all dairy and egg cases full, nuts and bread aisle pretty full. I’ve never spent so much on groceries at once. I have lots of spices and can get fresh veggies pretty easily, so I feel so much less stress. Checker said they are finally slowing down the last few days and have had the chance to fully restock.
They are reopening our state and I want a very full pantry. It’s too soon here.
You are correct Jane.
Last night, I went grocery shopping in the last hour before closing. Very few shoppers, with occasional masks worn, ample supplies of the frozen fruit and veggies and 1% milk that I needed. Ample paper products, meat and eggs as well. Staff were limited in number but very upbeat and attentive which was great to see after a busy Saturday (or was it so busy?)
Robin Hood had advised that they had run out of their yellow bags of flour with logos but an ample supply of plain large bags of flour was there. All in all, a very positive experience as nothing seemed to be lacking. I even got my first batch of fresh asparagus which I will enjoy today. The choice and number of flowers was considerably reduced from the days before the lockdown.