Masks:
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1
Apples, oranges, and confusion. Some deliberate.
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Masks:
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1
Apples, oranges, and confusion. Some deliberate.
Yppej, you’ve had it explained to you that cloth face coverings keep OTHERS. safe. You steadfastly ignore that fact. Can we assume that you simply don’t give a crap about other people? Are you one of those people who refuses to cough into your elbow? All I can say is thank god you live in a different state from me. Most of the people in my state show signs of caring about others. Clearly you don’t.
Someone who has actually studied how covid is transmitted. TLDR, until there is a vaccine or effective treatment for people who have contracted it people should not go to restaurants, bars or crowded offices. Social distancing only works when you are just briefly interacting with infected people. Not when you are spending an hour or two in their proximity.
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the...hem-avoid-them
ok but they are going to force people back to offices soon anyway or what get them to quit with no unemployment (which I have considered fwiw) and classrooms for that matter etc. (risky for teachers).Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
yes this is what I see, although that's just the grocery store because I haven't been much of anywhere since this started. And well people wear them outside as well, which might be a bit overkill if you aren't getting near anyoneQuote:
All I can say is thank god you live in a different state from me. Most of the people in my state show signs of caring about others.
I see this is not peer reviewed. I liked the first comment about how the non financial costs of wearing masks was ignored in the article.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
I do cough into my elbow, I do keep my distance from people, and I follow my state"s directive on masks while I do not like it. Since this began I have only seen my elderly parents 3 times at a distance of greater than 10 feet, including on Mother's Day when I did not hug my mom. It is not easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
There are numerous people at work who come up in close proximity to me in non customer areas not wearing a mask including both managers. I don't do that to others. I keep my distance except for one person who lives in my household. You know next to nothing about me, yet you repeatedly criticize me and attack me personally because I disagree with you on policy.
The reason I’m so frustrated with the anti-maskers is because we’ve now spent nearly two months with everything shutdown and we have little to show for it and will soon see a big uptick in cases because 1) a lot of the country is opening up too soon and too quickly, and 2) a not insignificant chunk of the population refuses to wear masks to reduce their ability to infect and kill other people. Other countries are starting to open up after similar lengths of shutdown but don’t have the same two issues we have. They will recover both economically and virologically much more quickly than the US.
And in the meantime the federal efforts at implementing tracking and tracing, critical for re-opening safely have now gotten to the point of implementing it for the staff at the White House but no where else.
I apologize for attacking you in particular. If we had other outspoken anti-maskers on this board I would be attacking them with equal vehemence because widespread mask wearing is the only way we’re going to be able to get back to any semblance of normal before there’s a vaccine. Unless we, alternatively, decide that a million dead people per year until we reach herd immunity is acceptable.
I do not think masks is the only way. I think compelling people in high risk groups to stay home is better. China did that. I responded in this vein in more detail on the Coronavirus thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
one of the arguments I have seen from mask protesters is the guidelines of various states violate their constitutional rights. Since the data suggests African Americans are disproportionately affected as well as seniors, I’m kind of thinking picking out groups of the high risk and order them to stay home will open a new can of worms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
i am high risk. Almost seventy and asthmatic. Never smoked anything ever. I don’t know when I’ll see my young grandchildren In person again which breaks my heart. I am self isolating and when I do go out I wear a mask and keep as far away from others as possible. Does that mean I should impose my beliefs on others? Is it morally or constitutionally right? I don’t know.
Sometimes I think I should just go see my grandkids and risk dying, but I love them too much to put their health at risk.
in the recommendations they reference “morally unacceptable harm”. There is certainly a lot of that in society today. I liken not wearing a mask to drunk driving. You might get home with no problems and you might kill a family. Worth the risk?Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Yesterday a friend of ours(for 35+ years, so we know their kids well) found out her daughter with a newborn is covid positive. She took the baby to her senior age parents house on Mother’s Day, even though they live in a state with stay at home orders and high amount of cases. Now the whole family is full of self blame, remorse and frantic anxiety.
That’s all we’ll and good until mike pence shows up at your nursing home bearing empty boxes of PPE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
That was a good article. I've sent it to a few friends who have given a positive comment on it. If a person considers his examples of community spread having a significant relationship to air flow, it's easy to understand the effectiveness of masks.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
Where is the 'cloud' storage stored? Cost in energy? Can you tell that I am trying to understand what 'cloud storage' means?
Jimmy Kimmel had to apologize about that. We really shouldn't get our new from comedians.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
Ditto for reality show hosts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
The "cloud" is simply a bunch of computers which store data and which are connected to other computers. That network can be the Internet or can be a local/private network (say, within a corporation or within a building or campus).Quote:
Originally Posted by razz
The "cloud" name came about because the specific location of the data that is stored is indeterminate to people using the data. Your device (computer or phone or tablet or ATM or cash register) manages that. The data (or even an app) simply is available through the device you're using, and whether it's coming from a computer near your home or one in Sao Paolo, Brazil, is of almost no consequence to you. Cloud data (and apps) often is replicated in various locations for many reasons: redundancy (not just one "golden" copy of the data but multiple instances of it kept in sync), response time (generally faster when the computer containing the data or app is closer to you), local language or content requirements (think Chinese versions of Google), etc.
Energy use? It can be considerable, though computers have made big strides in how much energy they use. The old joke used to be that a computer could also double as a furnace in a small home; those days are long gone. While rooms full of computers and storage devices do require cooling, it is orders of magnitude less than was needed 10-20 years ago (though the number of those devices keeps going up on an absolute basis).
Google, for instance, is said to have at least two million "servers" (though some of them exist as just a single board in a rack full of single boards or even as just a software program that emulates a physical computer). Microsoft is said to have about a million, to serve up OneDrive data and Microsoft (Office) 365 and email and its other products. Even the Fortune 100 company I worked at had more than 10,000 servers when I left nine years ago, many of which were either "blades" or virtual, not discrete boxes sitting on desks or tables. Not all of these were cloud servers but that gives you an idea of the population. Mining for cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin was estimated in 2018 to use about 1% of all the electrical power in the world; today there are 8733 nodes working away at mining Bitcoin (for our purposes, they can be considered cloud servers though some of them actually are boxes sitting on tables, which are inefficient cloud storage devices).
Does that help?
I never thought much about what the "Cloud" was, but I found Steve's explanation super interesting. Thanks!
I think in my technologically-naive mind, I almost took it literally! When I look for a document that's backed up in my cloud, I almost picture it descending from the heavens. :)
A lot about current technology, like cell phones and internet, is so mind-boggling. If we thought it would have been hard to explain to someone from the 19th century what a 1950s television set is and how it works, how would we ever explain uncountable bits of data flying through the "air"?
That first comment is mind-boggling to me. The mask isn't permanently affixed to one's face, after all. It's generally not worn at home, and with luck, the pandemic will be over in time. Cluelessness? Selfishness?Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Commenter: David Curtis
The commenter has declared there is no conflict of interests.
Comment: This article completely fails to consider the costs of mask-wearing. There's a reason why we don't do this. It impairs our quality of life. We like to feel fresh air on our faces. We like to go out and see people. We like to be able to talk to people unencumbered. We like to be able to see people's expressions, their smiles.
Sure, make a judgement about the relative benefits and harms of mask-wearing. But don't purport to be writing some kind of rational appraisal while completely ignoring the obvious loss of quality of life which universal, permanent mask-wearing would entail.
Apparently you are correct but if he has covid, which is a very real possibility, the germs won’t care whether the box was full or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
There’s never been a virus yet that could spread as fast as a lie congenial to the prevailing narrative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
My opinion on this FWIW--there is obviously a dearth of good studies on this topic because this is a brand new problem. So, challenging the study is reasonable. There is nothing conclusive in JAMA or NEJM or any other journals and if there are, please post them.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
But IRL, I see NOTHING wrong with adopting a reasonable practice like trying to keep your "stuff" out of other people's faces and vice versa.
It's uncomfortable? You can't see me smile at you? You can't breathe easily through it for a short period of time? Poor baby. Life is tough. Again, I go back to times when people had REAL sacrifice, like living in an an attic annex for 2 years with 8 other people, or taking jobs in factories to hold places for servicemen overseas.
Wearing masks is not a REAL sacrifice, IMHO, and the "why not" is so much bigger than the "why."
Wrong. Oh so fing wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
While used to attempt to protect the medical workers from getting infections, it is also used to attempt to stop the spread of infections, which is why they are SUPPOSED to be a one use thing. There is more to hospitals then just Covid. I have had multiple people I know, come out of hospitals with staph infections that required them to be quarantined until they were no longer infectious. These can be spread by reusing PPE to both the sick and the well.
The breeze on your face? Really? What kind of twaddle is this? Go stand in your backyard and feel all the breeze you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
You can buy a mask with a window now, for lip-readers. And there are face shields. People in this country seem incredibly childlike and entitled that they can't tolerate even a few months of minor inconvenience like masking up and social distancing.
I completely agree.Quote:
People in this country seem incredibly childlike and entitled that they can't tolerate even a few months of minor inconvenience like masking up and social distancing.
You're welcome! What I left out of my note was that the "cloud" refers in part to the data being "up there somewhere" like, uh, clouds.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
I saw on Twitter once the comment, "If you told someone 15 years ago that in the future their computer would have something called “airplane mode,” they would be incredibly disappointed by what that actually did"Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
I don't think mask wearing will be a short term thing. I think a precedent has been set and now every flu season everyone will be expected to wear one, because as the prevailing narrative and Trump say, even one death is too many.
Thank you Steve. At some point we are going to be paying for the internet or do ads cover the expense? I have 5G cloud storage and have been advised to pay a monthly fee ($1.29f mth) for more so tryng to figure out options for storage. Memory sticks are a possibility for my photos.
...and LDAHL hits it out of the park again!Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
Are you for real? OK. Experiment. Please go to the nearest hospital. Ask to sit in a COVID room on a COVID unit for 6 hours with no PPE. You should be fine according to your babble above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Your lack of interest in actually understanding basic facts is so far beyond my ability to comprehend.....l
TMS: Y doesn't want to understand. I don't know why, but after she gets done with her shift in a COVID room for 12hours without PPE, let's see how she's doing on day 18!>:(Quote:
Originally Posted by ToomuchStuff
I guess you missed where I wrote, "in non-medical situations where one is not within 6 feet of the same person for 15 minutes or more (the standard for contact tracing)."Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardnr
Good point, Yppej, about being able to be with dying relatives for 15 minutes if we wear a mask. It is definitely something that needs to be addressed.
In Asian countries people have been wearing masks for years. It’s not a big deal. My take on Y is that her job worries are affecting other areas of her life. If you mask up to be with a dying person you are putting medical staff at more risk and risk spreading the virus. I would prefer to die alone than spread it to my family. Sacrifices need to be made and previous generations make us look like big babies.
I've never been with a loved one when they died--unless you count my cats. It's my opinion that we all die alone.
I wonder how more mask wearing in this country would affect death rates from annual flu strains.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
In my family no one has died alone. My mom and I were with my dad and my brother with my mom. All our parents were with their parents but no one died suddenly.
My father was with my mother when she left, but he was asleep, so she slipped away. ;)
The sad things is masks may be one of the few tools we actually have to lessen this pandemic.
And yes that's sad, because countries that actually have a government that's not COMPLETELY USELESS have other options although they probably make use of masks as well. I wish we could get there but this country is so screwed up. Some might say "herd immunity" is an option, even if that is possible (a matter of debate), I've heard predictions it would take until 2022 to achieve WITHOUT overwhelming hospitals. Or we go for overwhelming hospitals. Meanwhile the economy is not fully coming back, because the more deaths on the news and more so in people's direct immediate experience, the more people are afraid etc.. If we wanted the economy to really come back, we would have to do something to control the pandemic.
My dad was so doped up on morphine when he died that no we weren't with him when he died, because he wouldn't have been with us in any sense regardless. I think this is usually how death really goes (and that's the good death not the dying in excruciating pain or anything death).
I guess if you'd read the actual study, instead of the random comments, you'd see that it is a review of the relevant published literature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
But why bother.