When I Get Old ...

I read Leaving and Loving the Good Life by Helen Nearing about Scott Nearing's death, and it was an interesting story--a point-by-point account of his death from her POV as his wife. The reasoning for them was, as I remember, Scott saying he was ready to die, and Helen suggested he stop eating, because that's what animals do--just crawl off in the woods and stop eating. So it seemed like, as Tybee says, Nature's Way to them, and that's what he did when he turned 100. Tybee, I think I vaguely remember him going to a nursing home.

I think protracted, expensive deaths are painful to all on many counts.

Saw in today's paper .. one of Bette Midler's favorite songs by John Prine... Hello in There .... brought tears to my eyes

HELLO IN THERE

We had an apartment in the city
Me and Loretta liked living there
Well, it'd been years since the kids had grown
A life of their own, left us alone
John and Linda live in Omaha
And Joe is somewhere on the road
We lost Davy in the Korean war
And I still don't know what for, don't matter anymore
You know that old trees just grow stronger
And old rivers grow wilder every day
Old people just grow lonesome
Waiting for someone to say, "Hello in there, hello"
Me and Loretta, we don't talk much more
She sits and stares through the back door screen
And all the news just repeats itself
Like some forgotten dream that we've both seen
Someday I'll go and call up Rudy
We worked together at the factory
But what could I say if he asks "What's new?"
"Nothing, what's with you? Nothing much to do"
You know that old trees just grow stronger
And old rivers grow wilder every day
Old people just grow lonesome
Waiting for someone to say, "Hello in there, hello"
So if you're walking down the street sometime
And spot some hollow ancient eyes
Please don't just pass 'em by and stare
As if you didn't care, say, "Hello in there, hello"

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Originally Posted by frugal-one

Saw in today's paper .. one of Bette Midler's favorite songs by John Prine... Hello in There .... brought tears to my eyes

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He was 24 years old when he wrote that, one of his finest works. The verses tell the story and the chorus reveals the moral, I think it's an example of a perfect song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVhA...ature=emb_logo

It's certainly beautifully written, even if I doubt the sentiment is universal.

Certainly a sad song to listen to. The immediate first response I felt in listening now to it for the first time is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Ch...nneWarwickVEVO

We can all do that.

Beautiful song. Truly. The lyrics are amazing.

Reminds me of Eleanor Rigby

Eleanor Rigby
Picks up the rice in the church where a wedding has been
Lives in a dream
Waits at the window
Wearing a face that she keeps in a jar by the door
Who is it for?

All the lonely people
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely people
Where do they all belong?

Father McKenzie
Writing the words of a sermon that no-one will hear
No-one comes near
Look at him working
Darning his socks in the night when there's nobody there
What does he care?

All the lonely people
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely people
Where do they all belong?

Ah, look at all the lonely people
Ah, look at all the lonely people

Eleanor Rigby
Died in the church and was buried along with her name
Nobody came
Father McKenzie
Wiping the dirt from his hands as he walks from the grave
No-one was saved
All the lonely people (Ah, look at all the lonely people)
Where do they all come from?
All the lonely people (Ah, look at all the lonely people)
Where do they all belong?

OK!!!! I protest this gloom and doom. We can do something about it, each and everyone of us instead of crying; go for a walk greeting your neighbours or find someone to greet. My dog and I do this twice a day and have friends along the different routes we take. People going by in their different vehicles usually take care to give me and my dog clearance and I nod my thanks. Now I get a wave from many of them. The sense of community begins with me wanting one and willing to invest the effort in creating one. End of protest.

Hello in there Razz, Hello!

Yeah, the pathos here is lost on me, but I recognize it's a problem for many.

Or become a hermit :laff:

oddly maybe I think I was always ever meant to be rather hermit-y, so if I become a hermit in my old age .....

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Originally Posted by razz

OK!!!! I protest this gloom and doom. We can do something about it, each and everyone of us instead of crying; go for a walk greeting your neighbours or find someone to greet. My dog and I do this twice a day and have friends along the different routes we take. People going by in their different vehicles usually take care to give me and my dog clearance and I nod my thanks. Now I get a wave from many of them. The sense of community begins with me wanting one and willing to invest the effort in creating one. End of protest.

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When you get old sometimes you cannot walk.

When you get old you can lose your mind. While my mother was driving home from visiting her mother in the nursing home my grandmother would call her saying, "Why don't you ever visit me?" She could not remember the visit she just had.

So yes it can be lonely.

I am not denying that losses and tragedies happen, not for a minute. I don't live on another planet or in a bubble. I also know that each one of us can make a difference. Back to the starfish story.

If everyone turned off their TV for 3 hours a day and made a point of reaching out to another human being by phone or writing or waving to others, what changes might happen? It is easier to say the job is too big for me or it is too much effort or no one wants to hear/see/talk to me to excuse reaching out to others while respecting appropriate boundaries. I have vented enough on this, I think.

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Originally Posted by razz

OK!!!! I protest this gloom and doom. We can do something about it, each and everyone of us instead of crying; go for a walk greeting your neighbours or find someone to greet. My dog and I do this twice a day and have friends along the different routes we take. People going by in their different vehicles usually take care to give me and my dog clearance and I nod my thanks. Now I get a wave from many of them. The sense of community begins with me wanting one and willing to invest the effort in creating one. End of protest.

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Today would be good day to go for a walk... wind chills -29F. That surely would take care of the doom and gloom hehe.

I've had conversations on line with several people today--I surely don't want strangers pounding on my door. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way, so "reachers" be forewarned. :D

My great grandmother spent the end of her life in a nursing home. Local youth groups would visit, bringing presents or crafts, doing performances and visiting with residents. And my great grandmother would say “I don’t know why we have to put up with these kids. Can’t they find anything else for them to do?”

Like Razz I meet people walking my dogs. I also talked to my friends and visited my kids. We are making plans to eat in a restaurant when we all are vaccinated. Also discussing what vacations we might take in the fall.

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Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

I've had conversations on line with several people today--I surely don't want strangers pounding on my door. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way, so "reachers" be forewarned. :D

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I agree. I'm friendly, but when I'm at home I want to be left alone unless you call or text me in advance to see if I'm available. And I hate both small talk and people who have been taught that they should make friends by asking a lot of questions because "everybody" likes to talk about themself. >:( Look people, it's a casual conversation between two people who just met, not a KGB interrogation! So talk about something we might have in common instead of trying to dig out all the most intimate personal facts about my life, because as soon as you start asking personal questions like how many children I have or what my address is, I'll politely tell you to go to hell in a heartbeat.

True story: At work some guy I didn't know came over to where I was and said "You ride a motorcycle, don't you." I said "yes." And he says "Where do you live?" and I said "Why would that be any of your business?" So he says "I'm thinking about getting a motorcycle and if you don't live too far from here I was going to come over so you can give me some lessons." He actually thought I would waste my precious non-work time giving a total stranger riding lessons on MY motorcycle, and no doubt for free at that!

Forget about relying on the kindness of strangers, it's a lot safer to rely on the strangeness of strangers and keep your guard up until you really know them well enough to trust them.

And here I was thinking we were talking about the lonely people as were described in the two songs from Alan and Catherine. Silly me.

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Originally Posted by razz

And here I was thinking we were talking about the lonely people as were described in the two songs from Alan and Catherine. Silly me.

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Not silly at all. I like your positive approach to building community, and wish you were my neighbor. We could walk our dogs together!

I spend a lot of time lately at the nursing home. The problems of dementia are way beyond what is suggested in the Prine song. It's a good song, but with real life dementia, real life nursing homes, real life people at the end stage of life, I wish the answers were as simple as Prine implies.

But that's not what you were talking about, and I think you are right, that we are all way to plugged in for our own goods. I was just at my son and dil's for example,a nd they do the thing where they are looking at their phone while having a conversation. He always said he would not get a cell phone for that reason, and now he does it, too.

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Originally Posted by Tybee

Not silly at all. I like your positive approach to building community, and wish you were my neighbor. We could walk our dogs together!

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Count me in as well, razz. Just getting outside - even in freezing weather for a few minutes! - raises my mood, even if just slightly. I would socially distance walk with you and Tybee (no dog right now :( )! I'm a "waver" as well. When I walk, I always wave to passing cars. Most people wave back and I've even caught a few smiles as they go by.

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Originally Posted by razz

And here I was thinking we were talking about the lonely people as were described in the two songs from Alan and Catherine. Silly me.

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What's wrong with that kind of song, in my opinion, is that people generalize that all old and/or single people are pining away dying of loneliness, and then they extrapolate that all they need is random people stopping by, which is often far from the case. Those songs, while beautifully written (with a very broad brush) are insulting, also in my opinion, to those of us who are not depressed sad sacks.

There’s a difference between being alone and being lonely. I have been very lonely when I was in my second marriage. That was much worse.

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Originally Posted by Teacher Terry

There’s a difference between being alone and being lonely.

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I definitely agree with this.

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Originally Posted by Teacher Terry

There’s a difference between being alone and being lonely.

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One of the great lessons I learned in life is that it's better to be alone than wish you were.

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Originally Posted by SteveinMN

One of the great lessons I learned in life is that it's better to be alone than wish you were.

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My beloved took a picture of me at a party, looking wistfully out a window, probably wishing I had a book. >8)

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Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

My beloved took a picture of me at a party, looking wistfully out a window, probably wishing I had a book. >8)

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My son is like DH, very gregarious. In fact just yesterday, DH and I were laughing because I was talking about how I hate it when people who sit next to you on a plane want to be chatty, and we were saying, "Can you imagine getting a seat next to [DS]?"

I was reading an article in Taproot Magazine yesterday (great mag, btw). And I found the PERFECT name for my little spot here, but DH/DS don't get it. The author was talking about a town in Japan that she grew up in. Its name was Rakusen, which translates to "A place of ease for mountain hermits". Wow. That's the place for me!

I'm not really as much of a hermit as all that, I'm in a relationship afterall. I guess I just feel sometimes that trying to be part of anything much larger than that (than a few close relationships), can feel as averse as it does anything else. That there is something deeply calming, even when melancholy, in just being
in one's own presence. I want to be alone. But I'm weird and have always been so and much in my own company as well, so if anything it's just being ok in owning that, no matter how social I thought I had to try to be in my youth.

Alzheimer's patients and stuff, sheesh I don't think they are necessarily that lonely as they can hardly remember one minute to the next. I mean they may actually enjoy it if people visit, and they'll forget 5 minutes after they leave as well. People who can't walk in some cases it is to a degree a choice, IF it's the kind of thing that could be fixed with knee or hip surgery or whatever, but like any serious (general anesthesia) surgery it carries some low risk for most, but it might mean ability to walk.

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"A place of ease for mountain hermits"

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Describes my mountain brother to a tee. He loves his mountain home high above a small town he can venture down into if he gets an urge to be social which isn't very often.

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Originally Posted by catherine

forever
I was reading an article in Taproot Magazine yesterday (great mag, btw). And I found the PERFECT name for my little spot here, but DH/DS don't get it. The author was talking about a town in Japan that she grew up in. Its name was Rakusen, which translates to "A place of ease for mountain hermits". Wow. That's the place for me!

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Having visited Japan and seen their high mountains, and very deep valleys with water between, one did not travel easily. They learned self-sufficiency and cooperation because if you got a problem, you needed your neighbours to survive and thrive. The first son would inherit the parents' house and marry; the other siblings were dependent on him, remained single or left.

I decided that while I am more introvert than extrovert, I didn't think that I would survive as a hermit or wish to live in those mountain settings. It is fascinating how much Japanese topography impacted its government, development and technological skills. Catherine, thanks for triggering memories. It is an amazing country.

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

My great grandmother spent the end of her life in a nursing home. Local youth groups would visit, bringing presents or crafts, doing performances and visiting with residents. And my great grandmother would say “I don’t know why we have to put up with these kids. Can’t they find anything else for them to do?”

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This is hilarious!


I would actually like to view as an old lady in the nursing home, youth groups doing dance performances. Because I like dance.


If I have to endure them singing songs from musicals, playing their guitars singing songs they’ve written, no please! I’m begging you don’t make me!!! LOL

One of my college classes used to "entertain" at various facilities where many of the residents were clearly not particularly interested. But I'm no singer, so maybe they were just appalled. :)

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Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

One of my college classes used to "entertain" at various facilities where many of the residents were clearly not particularly interested. But I'm no singer, so maybe they were just appalled. :)

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Something I have learned about in the last 10 years is “ dance ministry.” Churches here, the historically black churches anyway, have a dance troupe made up of church ladies. Some ministries are youthful dancers.

They have flow-y costumes and perform dances to church music.

Now that I like, and in another life that might have got me into a church.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

Something I have learned about in the last 10 years is “ dance ministry.” Churches here, the historically black churches anyway, have a dance group made up of church ladies. They have flow-y costumes and perform dances to church music.

Now that I like, and in another life that might have got me into a church.

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Funny you should say that. I really love gospel music--not so much for the piety aspect, but it is just so fun and rockin'. I used to sing in the choir at church and those were the types of songs I loved singing the most. So I was looking for a gospel choir around here that I could join, but of course, due to COVID I'd have to wait. Plus it looks like there's a great one in Montpelier, but that's an hour+ away. Maybe I just have to sing along with Alexa.

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Originally Posted by catherine

Funny you should say that. I really love gospel music--not so much for the piety aspect, but it is just so fun and rockin'. I used to sing in the choir at church and those were the types of songs I loved singing the most. So I was looking for a gospel choir around here that I could join, but of course, due to COVID I'd have to wait. Plus it looks like there's a great one in Montpelier, but that's an hour+ away. Maybe I just have to sing along with Alexa.

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I do not mean to be indelicate, but ya’ll up there in lily white Vermont will have gospel choirs that are, at best, weak imitations of the real thing. Sorry! Make do with what you have, but singing along with Alexa may be your best bet.

speaking of diversity, how far do you have to drive for

1. Indian food
2. Thai food
3. Vietnamese food
4. anything middle eastern in food

???

My friend who moved to rural NH doesn’t eat any of the above so she will not admit to being in a cultural food wasteland, but I won’t move too far from ethnic restaurants. Mexican and Chinese don’t count.

Hermann, sadly, lost another nice restaurant (not ethnic, but real cooking) and now is down to only two that interest me. Everything else is pizza and burgers, as is the next big town over.

I have purchased a condo in this city for a base for garden club activity but also to be able to eat out at a decent place.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

I do not mean to be indelicate, but ya’ll up there in lily white Vermont will have gospel choirs that are, at best, weak imitations of the real thing. Sorry! Make do with what you have, but singing along with Alexa may be your best best.

speaking of diversity, how far do you have to drive for

1. Indian food
2. Thai food
3. Vietnamese food
4. anything middle eastern in food

???

My friend who moved to rural NH doesn’t eat any of the above so she will not admit to being in a cultural food wasteland, but I won’t move too far from ethnic restaurants. Mexican and Chinese don’t count.


Hermann, sadly, lost another nice restaurant (not ethnic, but real cooking) and now is down to only two that interest me. Everything else is pizza and burgers, as is the next big town over.

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Well, the Montpelier gospel choir online pictures looked appealing, although pretty lily-white. You have a point.

As far as diversity:

1. Indian food: 35 minutes to Burlington :(
2. Thai food: Amazingly, only 10 miles to South Hero. A native Thai woman started a restaurant a couple of years ago, although she had to add American stuff to the menu to draw customers.
3. Vietnamese food: I could probably get it in Burlington--there is a large refugee population there, so the ethnic food possibilities are not bad.
4. Middle eastern: Again, Burlington, 35 minutes away.

But I admit, I do miss the diversity of New Jersey for sure. We had an ethnic restaurant on every corner. I could walk to Indian food, Asian fusion food, Vietnamese food, Japanese food, Chinese food, Italian food.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

I do not mean to be indelicate, but ya’ll up there in lily white Vermont will have gospel choirs that are, at best, weak imitations of the real thing. Sorry! Make do with what you have, but singing along with Alexa may be your best best.

speaking of diversity, how far do you have to drive for

1. Indian food
2. Thai food
3. Vietnamese food
4. anything middle eastern in food

???

My friend who moved to rural NH doesn’t eat any of the above so she will not admit to being in a cultural food wasteland, but I won’t move too far from ethnic restaurants. Mexican and Chinese don’t count.


Hermann, sadly, lost another nice restaurant (not ethnic, but real cooking) and now is down to only two that interest me. Everything else is pizza and burgers, as is the next big town over.

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I have two Indian restaurants close--one 3 miles west, one 3 miles south, roughly. There are many more in Kirkland and Bellevue, at least one in Woodinville. For starters. There are two Thai restaurants in town--one a couple of miles, and one withing potential walking distance. Lots of Vietnamese restaurants in Lake City and Kirkland, more in Bellevue. Middle Eastern is more problematic. There was one close in in Kirkland, but it is no longer. There were also two in Bellevue that I know of. There are two Ethiopian restaurants within a reasonable driving distance--7 or 8 miles, I guess. I'm with you--I wouldn't live without ethnic restaurants if I could help it. Ethnic restaurants, thrift stores, and a good library system are non-negotiable.

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Originally Posted by catherine

Well, the Montpelier gospel choir online pictures looked appealing, although pretty lily-white. You have a point.

As far as diversity:

1. Indian food: 35 minutes to Burlington :(
2. Thai food: Amazingly, only 10 miles to South Hero. A native Thai woman started a restaurant a couple of years ago, although she had to add American stuff to the menu to draw customers.
3. Vietnamese food: I could probably get it in Burlington--there is a large refugee population there, so the ethnic food possibilities are not bad.
4. Middle eastern: Again, Burlington, 35 minutes away.

But I admit, I do miss the diversity of New Jersey for sure. We had an ethnic restaurant on every corner. I could walk to Indian food, Asian fusion food, Vietnamese food, Japanese food, Chinese food, Italian food.

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That isn’t bad, a 35 minute drive.

Here, Hermann is 85 miles from St Louis so not doable for one meal.

And is is very discouraging for me that the “big” town near Hermann which is 30 miles away seems to be all pizza and burger and bar food. Not even a white tablecloth Italian or American place. But I could be wrong about that, further exploration necessary.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

That isn’t bad, a 35 minute drive.

Here, Hermann is 85 miles from St Louis so not doable for one meal.

And is is very discouraging for me that the “big” town near Hermann which is 30 miles away seems to be all pizza and burger and bar food. Not even a white tablecloth Italian or American place. But I could be wrong about that, further exploration necessary.

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Yeah, we have one "white tablecloth" restaurant here, but DH HATES it. We took a couple of friends there once and the service was bad, and the food was mediocre for the price. So, we virtually have no nice places to go to on the island. It's the sports bar, or the casual Thai/American place. Although they just opened a brew pub where you can get craft beers made right here on the islands and a pretzel.

As for Burlington, I may have overstated the ethnic food market .. there is actually ONE Indian restaurant in a fairly large city, and I looked up the demographics and in spite of the "large refugee population" it's still 85% white. That SNL skit was definitely not far off the mark (I know I've posted this before but I still think it's funny).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKcUOUYzDXA

This thread reminded me of something I was thinking about this week.

our interests and tastes don’t really change as we get old.

I absolutely LOATHE all of the “nice” assisted living places I have seen. Why? Because they are all new builds, in varying degrees of expensive.

Hermann has a hideous Assist Living center that is all one floor and ugly. It is out on a highway, so no chance to view darling victorian architecture of Hermann. Just look at fields and cars driving by.

I would like to be in assisted living in one of the old church monasteries or whatever they are called around here. Great old buildings! But those are not in the city and are away from ethnic restaurants and some (not all) cultural places. They are all multi story which does not work for the old folks.

What I missed traveling some places in the U.S. was a lack of any even moderately healthy cuisine. Gah I guess that's why they call it California cuisine!!! >8) Truthfully not just California, like noone has any doubt you can eat well in Seattle etc., but some places are truly a wasteland, and I kept eating at the most unhealthy restaurant ever when trying places and when I tried ethnic food it was the worst imitation of it ever. I was very tired of the food.

But I don't care about restaurants all that much when I live somewhere as I cook and cook well. But then I care about what groceries I can buy, better have a good selection there, I mean darn well better - but there is probably a lot of overlap between that and having a good restaurant selection. The one ethnic food I'd most want is a good Jewish deli. Well we have those. After that I like middle eastern. And yep I like California cuisine.