Is There or Is There Not a Border Crisis?

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Originally Posted by Yppej

The average month being 30 days this would mean people only ate one meal every 10 days. How did they not all die of starvation?

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I don't think members of American's dominant culture today have any real conception of real hunger, and its effects upon the human body. With proper hydration, people can go for months-to-years with very little caloric intake. As I showed pointers to above, the ration diet was 500 calories/day/adult, and the article I provided went into some detail on the scavenged root/berry/tasty rocks and bark diet that sustained them "enough" so that only tens-of-thousands died....

I wonder, what's the longest people here on the SLF have gone without food?

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Originally Posted by Yppej

The average month being 30 days this would mean people only ate one meal every 10 days. How did they not all die of starvation?

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OMG what the hell is wrong with you?

Worst I ever experienced was a time at university when my savings ran very low. Working on Saturdays, I lived on one bowl of oatmeal mixed with water in the morning and a hot dog and bun in the evening for some time. I lost so much weight, I was called into the supervisor's office to find out what was going on. I explained my budget and how much I had to live on for the next semester. Once the truth came out just before Christmas, it was arranged that I would use a renovated closet in a girls' residence for the next semester and enjoy proper meals including breakfast and dinner after class that would cost just exactly the amount that was left in my budget. That support made such a difference in my life forever as I completed the program which enabled a good living all my working years. Compassion wins!

I have never taken food for granted since and give generously to the Salvation Army food budget each year, three times as much this past year.

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Originally Posted by razz

Worst I ever experienced was a time at university when my savings ran very low. Working on Saturdays, I lived on one bowl of oatmeal mixed with water in the morning and a hot dog and bun in the evening for some time. I lost so much weight, I was called into the supervisor's office to find out what was going on. I explained my budget and how much I had to live on for the next semester. Once the truth came out just before Christmas, it was arranged that I would use a renovated closet in a girls' residence for the next semester and enjoy proper meals including breakfast and dinner after class that would cost just exactly the amount that was left in my budget. That support made such a difference in my life forever as I completed the program which enabled a good living all my working years. Compassion wins!

I have never taken food for granted since and give generously to the Salvation Army food budget each year, three times as much this past year.

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Amazing story Razz. Thank you for sharing something so personal and painful. Like you, as early as I could afford it in my working life, I started donating to our local foodbank hoping children and young adults would never have to live what my parents lived. I cannot remotely imagine eating once/week at most. We 6 kids were fed well. Garden, milk and beef butchered from the dairy farm our sponsor set up for Dad to "make it". We ate well even though I had no idea we were poor until I was nearly 8 years old.

Like you, I take nothing for granted. Again, thank you for sharing.

I also have always helped people that have struggled because I did as a young single mom. Without my parents I would have experienced real suffering despite working full time. Thanks for sharing Gard and Razz.

My dad served in the army I. Germany during the Korean was (1951-52). Germany at that time was still incredibly hobbled from the war. I’m not surprised that much of the rest of Europe was also still struggling and would continue to do so for years.

I've lived in some awfully spartan housing including a converted garage and unfinished basement, but have never really experienced hunger. A couple of years during college I did restaurant work and got a free meal for every shift. My parents had their own hardships but were never close to some version of starvation. I've never taken food for granted.

My DIL’s family in Poland had tough times when under Russia. Her mom would stand in line all day trying to get bread or meat. The stores were mostly empty. We were there in October when they celebrated their independence. People dress up in period costumes and act out their lives back then. It’s done every year so people never forget how bad life was and how important freedom is.

I have not experienced real hunger either. Growing up in a large family, we always had food on the table - for which I was and still am extremely grateful. Looking back, I wonder how my mother did it, but she did - bless her! Add me to the list as someone who does not take food for granted and contributes as much as I can when I can.

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Originally Posted by bae

I know in my agency, we are required to punt any questions to our Public Information Officer.

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Jen Psaki spent part of one of her press conferences explaining President Biden's position in detail. Unaccompanied minors will be allowed in and attempts will be made to reunite them with relatives or guardians. All others will be processed according to national and international law. DHS head Alejandro Mayorkas has decried the startling inhumanity of the last administration, so I trust him to curtail the brutality and gross neglect that has been endemic at the border.

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Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

Jen Psaki spent part of one of her press conferences explaining President Biden's position in detail. Unaccompanied minors will be allowed in and attempts will be made to reunite them with relatives or guardians. All others will be processed according to national and international law. DHS head Alejandro Mayorkas has decried the startling inhumanity of the last administration, so I trust him to curtail the brutality and gross neglect that has been endemic at the border.

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Yes. She explained it’s not a “crisis”, it’s a “circumstance”.

Part of me wonders if all the worry over what would happen if a large number of immigrants were allowed in from countries south of us is unfounded. The last time we had a large influx of immigrants in an uncontrolled fashion and allowed them to become citizens and integrated them into society was a little over 40 years ago when the Mariel boatlift happened. Practically overnight Miami and south florida were changed forever. Forty years later the city is a hub of international business focused on trade with all of Latin America. No one would have predicted that when we decided to let any Cuban that came here become citizens. But they settled in and pursued the American dream and made it their own.

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Originally Posted by jp1

Part of me wonders if all the worry over what would happen if a large number of immigrants were allowed in from countries south of us is unfounded.

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I suppose that all depends on what "large" is. 433 million people live in South America, 181 million in Central America, and 127 million in Mexico. 742 million people.

There were 1 million immigrants from Ireland from 1820 to 1845, at a time when the population of Ireland was about 7.5 million (average weighted handwave, note I stopped just as the Potato Famine data starts). 13.3% of the population. 1 million over 25 years.

Say 13.3% of the 742 million people South of us decide to freely move here. ~99 million people, over 25 years. The population of the USA today is 328 million people. The projected population of the USA in 25 years, not assuming this immigration, is 388 million.

So the new immigrants would add 99 million to that projected population, for a population of 487 million, and they would be 20.3% of the population.

Given that Colombia has taken in 1.5 million migrants and has given them access to education, health care, work permits, and ten years authoriization to rem

ain in the country, no, I don't see this as a crisis. I would agree this is a challenge. Colombia has risen to it - will we? Rob

This just seems to be a natural fluctuation to me, but of course not to those poised to excoriate President Biden for deeds done and undone. Two months in, of course everything happening is his fault.

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Originally Posted by bae

I suppose that all depends on what "large" is. 433 million people live in South America, 181 million in Central America, and 127 million in Mexico. 742 million people.

There were 1 million immigrants from Ireland from 1820 to 1845, at a time when the population of Ireland was about 7.5 million (average weighted handwave, note I stopped just as the Potato Famine data starts). 13.3% of the population. 1 million over 25 years.

Say 13.3% of the 742 million people South of us decide to freely move here. ~99 million people, over 25 years. The population of the USA today is 328 million people. The projected population of the USA in 25 years, not assuming this immigration, is 388 million.

So the new immigrants would add 99 million to that projected population, for a population of 487 million, and they would be 20.3% of the population.

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Thirty years ago the US population was 248 million. 80 million less than now. Adding another 99 million over the next 25 years doesn’t necessarily sound problematic. And Mitch the even solve some problems such as providing solvency to the social security trust fund, assuming that the majority of the new immigrants were of working age.

But I also don’t think it’s a question of everyone or no one. But rather, whether the US can absorb without significant harm quite a few more immigrants from south of our border than we currently do. I don’t see any particular reason that they wouldn’t work as hard to live the American dream as anyone already here. As some people like to point out, our economy is not a zero sum prospect. Adding in a bunch more immigrants doesn’t mean less jobs to go around. It means more jobs are needed to provide goods and services to more people, and more people to come up with new business ideas that haven’t been done before.

The maximum sustainable population of the U.S. is almost certainly less than we have, but the good news is birth rates are dropping, so absent unlimited immigration, it shouldn't be too hard to lower the population.

The economy may not entirely be a zero sum prospect (that would be a claim that there is zero technical progress I suppose), but many aspects of the economy are to a degree a zero sum prospects due to limited natural resources (let's see how inhabitable many places are in 25 years, but we don't even need to speculate about 25 years, the limits are now with water and so on). And though this is theoretically solvable the limits are frankly infrastructure as well (is anyone building all the new housing, new freeways etc. we will need? And if one takes issue with the reality of needing to build new freeways etc., well noone is building alternatives that are fully viable as alternatives either). But that's theoretically solvable, yes but don't be surprised if noone wants to base their policy opinions on things they have no reason to believe will happen. Because as for building new housing and infrastructure .. we can't even house the people here now, maybe do that first.

Apparently the little desert town of Ajo, Arizona is up in arms due to migrants being dropped there. I've been debating taking the Valley Metro bus down there to check it out - for $4 each way I can get from the far Phoenix Westside to Gila Bend and then on to Ajo, Arizona. Would be a funky cheap day trip if nothing else. Rob

I’ve been to some hot places, but nowhere as hot as Gila Bend. Used to visit a friend there from time to time, and learned a new appreciation for the icy North.

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

Apparently the little desert town of Ajo, Arizona is up in arms due to migrants being dropped there.

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They're not "up in arms". They're just objecting to the feds suddenly deciding to dump migrants in nearby small towns instead of transporting them to distant cities that have more facilities to help them. Dumping migrants in small towns forces those small towns to pay the expense of transporting them to bigger towns -- an expense that up until now has been paid by the feds or by big-city NGOs. https://tucson.com/news/local/border...bd3b6978b.html

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

I’ve been to some hot places, but nowhere as hot as Gila Bend. Used to visit a friend there from time to time, and learned a new appreciation for the icy North.

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When I've taken the shuttle from Phoenix to Yuma before, it stops in Gila Bend. On the way back, it stops at a gas station that featured really cool dinosaur statuary imported from Mexico. I myself miss Gila Bend - and won't be on this shuttle again soon. It's still in business but is only doing private rides now at $299 (!!!!!!!!!!) RT Phoenix to Yuma. Too expensive! That's one crown and leftover $ for BP meds in Algodones, MX. Rob

Kamala Harris has been assigned this crisis but is not visiting Central America for months even while she travels elsewhere. I guess when it comes to the border Joe is Biden his time.