Printable View
Bomb threat today at work, had to evacuate the building. The new normal? I guess so. Gotta love it, eh?
I'm not easily fazed by such things but there is a moment of real gut level fear when you hear it - and then you get out of there. Get out of there very confused, should one take elevators or stairs for a bomb threat? I have no clue, all our training was for earthquakes and fires where the advice is usually to take the stairs.
What's going on since 1am this morning has been mind-blowing. Stay inside. Stay safe.
what is going on since 1 am?
It started about 10pm last night. The suspects held up a convenience store, killed a young campus police officer, and had a shoot-out with police, including use of explosives. One of the suspects is dead. The other is still at large, and many towns around here are under lock-down. Word now is that they're Russian Chechens.
Suspect at large has been identified by the AP as Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev, 19, of Cambridge, Mass., a Chechen from Russia.
Latest word is that he ran over his buddy as he was making his get-away from the gunfight with police.
Shelter in place now extended to include the entire city of Boston and a number of the surrounding suburbs.
Apparently they are brothers. My cousin lives in Watertown, which is totally shut down. He says its totally quiet, with only birds singing. The brothers are here legally from Turkey......although I guess they are originally from Chechnya. They've been here for a year. They don't know yet if they are part of a group, or just working by themselves. Apparently when they got to the dead brother, he had explosives on him.........so they are concerned the surviving one might too. Apparently in the gun fight, the brothers were throwing explosives.
I don't understand the mind of people who will intentionally hurt/kill innocent people. And these brothers were something like 19 and 21. So much hate at such a young age.
I'm seeing a lot of hateful comments, about Islam, specifically, in other forums related today's events which help shine a light on how this could be. Before we had any idea who these people were, there were numerous posts projecting suspicion on Islam, itself, rather than Muslim extremism. The abject lack of perspective and capacity to differentiate between a religion and its extreme aspects was rampant. Once the Chechnyan connection was made, the hateful rhetoric escalated exponentially. The critical aspect here is that this offensively hateful bigotry is, effectively, the product of American socialization (at least from certain quarters thereof). I'm scared for the safety of myself and my friends, given that this terrorist is loose in the area, but after today, the more lingering concern I'll have is with regard to the danger that so many regular-everyday-Americans pose, given how quick they were to project vicious hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyA
Right now, CBS (at least) is reporting that Dzhokhar himself has been in the U.S. since he was 7, so well over a decade. That leaves me with some questions as to how developed their connections are to Chechnya. Yet that seems to be a key descriptor in headlines and captions. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
<remainder removed; off-topic>
Now they're saying the brothers have been here for about 10 years. A woman who went to school with the younger brother, said he was a great kid........lots of friends and a nice guy. something has happened since then.
Also, this woman said that the older brother was 26.
I understand your comments bUU...........but isn't it sort of natural for people to make connections, as a self-preservation instinct kind of thing? It doesn't mean it works well or is fair, but I think its a very instinctual thing to lump people together, who are from a certain area, or a certain religion, or certain looks, etc.
I know I'm repeating myself........but I really think we need to see ourselves as natural beings, who come from different areas, have different beliefs, different emotions, etc., etc.. BUT........we are a country that encourages all of these groups to live together. I think its unreasonable to think that we can overcome these very instinctual urges to side with "our own kind", and to see others, as "others". This is just another problem we will always encounter in our attempts to be "civilized." I'm unfortunately not offering any suggestions, just to maybe explain why these things happen.
So my "home-grown violent idiot" hypothesis was off the mark, apparently.
It seems that hatred and factionalism and separatism are the problem, not the solution. But the white supremacist bomb throwers mentioned above would certainly support exclusion and apartheid.
Being cautious, even to a degree suspicious, of others who are outside your own group is a deeply rooted as fight or flight. That alone isn't a bad thing, just an obstacle to get around on the evolutionary trail. It's when we don't work to get around it, when we let irrational fears take over, that problems arise. Unfortunately any mob, even the internet based groups, are prone to mass hysteria.
Re: Boston. It doesn't make much sense to think there is any State sponsored connection with these guys. It also doesn't add up that they are part of any well funded, highly organized terrorist sect. As buu said, all signs point to them being extremists operating on their own (at least so far). In a sad way that is a common bond for all of us. Every one of us is associated with some group that could spin off a person capable of this behavior.
Be safe all of you guys in Boston!
Wrong here too. The FBI was wise to boot me out of their hiring process (after 6 months of tests and paperwork and more tests - UGH) once they realized I was deaf as a doorknob - had 'em fooled for awhile until the physical ;-)! As I certainly jumped to the wrong conclusion based on little info. Agent Scully I am not :-)! But once I saw the photos yesterday I actually did think they may be Turkish or from one of the new "x-istan" countries of the former Soviet Union and probably had ties to some Islamic terrorist groups. I also heard they were here quite a long time and that their parents, who also lived and worked here on legal greencards, had moved back to Russia last year. Doesn't seem that the father had any radical Islamic ties but who knows who the "kids" were involved with in this country - if any - or if just acting alone based on their own beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
Twitter has been an awesome window on this entire thing. I was on till nearly 2 am PT last night... Following journalists, mostly, and Mass State Patrol.
I've been glued to it - twitter has been a better source of information than the media. Given when I see things on twitter and when the media reports it, I wonder how many of them are using twitter for information as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox
I know this is probably a silly question.........but how do you get on Twitter?
http://www.twitter.com - you can set up an account there - and then you select what you want to follow. Mine is pretty utilitarian - I follow local police, fire, town, public transportation system and a few others.Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyA
Lots of folks use apps on their phones to access it - since I'm cheap (no, frugal :-), and I use a locked down blackberry my work provides (no personal media access), I just access it via the web on my computer.
I don't understand why this is so interesting, but it seems to be 24/7 news. Other than for those of your in the Boston area I don't get it. And then, because they (the media) think they have to broadcast 24/7 it's the same damn story over and over.
They took the 2nd suspect into custody just a few minutes ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
The media banging it to death I understood. What I didn't understand is how little I've seen of the tragedy down in Texas.
Yes, the tragedy in Texas really got ignored. Maybe they'll pick up on it now. Really tragic.......
It's all about priorities. The New York Times has apparently criticized Fox News for spending airtime covering the tragedy in Texas rather than the gun debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by creaker
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/19/bu...bate.html?_r=0
"...That would come as news to Fox fans, who have heard comparatively little about the subject. While most of “Joe” was dedicated to guns on Thursday, Fox’s morning show, “Fox & Friends,” didn’t mention the word once. It focused instead on news about a Texas fertilizer plant explosion..."
I've not sent a single tweet, but I find Twitter to be invaluable as a news source.Quote:
Originally Posted by creaker
Even NPR had 24/7 coverage here in CO. So boring with the same stuff over and over. Glad I had an mp3 player in the car.
Never have so many said so little for so long. (media that is.) Even Anderson Cooper was boring and looked stressed at having to ask nonsense questions and keep the camera busy.
I'm glad the President made a point of acknowledging the tragedy in Texas and pledged the resources needed to recover and rebuild, promising that those affected have not been forgotten.
The people in the Texas tragedy must feel totally forgotten/abandoned. I don't understand why stations couldn't have shared their time with that story too. NBC seems to be the worst. They sent Matt Lauer down there, and I don't think they even used any of his stuff.
Kim Jong Un must have been really ticked off. haha
I think it's because the Marathon story was far less predictable (and therefore more interesting) television than watching a bunch of people pick through burned buildings and belongings in Texas.Quote:
Originally Posted by creaker
Not to seem callous about the tragedy in West. In many respects, the toll of that disaster is bigger than in Boston. But the fire is out and there very likely won't be any more surprises out of that. Not the same way the Marathon story featured a late-night shootout, a door-to-door manhunt, and a standoff. And the story behind the story in West -- assuming the fire/explosion was not the work of terrorists -- is one of bad zoning ordinances, corporate greed, and unobserved safety regulations, not the story of two young Chechen-American men who had what appears to have been mixed success in transitioning to life in America.
I wish I could verbalize my thoughts as well as you do Steve!
only people are complaining how bored they were seeing it all the time when there was nothing new to report so it wasn't even fulfilling a purpose as entertainment. Makes you wonder ... But yea MSM keep boring us all away, so that noone pays any attention to you anymore, hey I like this. :) A brave new world self implodes because they're so blindered they can't even get entertainment and distraction right anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinMN
I tend to be way more conspiratorial. What agenda does 24/7 covering of the boston bombings serve? The need for more and more money to be poured into homeland security, anti-terrorism, police miltiterization etc.. And of course with it the need for the loss of more and more civil liberties. What agenda would covering the fertilizer explosion serve? The need for more safety and environmental etc. regulations on industry? Which one serves the current government agenda and that of our corporate masters? Which one is totally inline with the direction the wind is blowing and which is not?Quote:
Not to seem callous about the tragedy in West. In many respects, the toll of that disaster is bigger than in Boston. But the fire is out and there very likely won't be any more surprises out of that. Not the same way the Marathon story featured a late-night shootout, a door-to-door manhunt, and a standoff. And the story behind the story in West -- assuming the fire/explosion was not the work of terrorists -- is one of bad zoning ordinances, corporate greed, and unobserved safety regulations, not the story of two young Chechen-American men who had what appears to have been mixed success in transitioning to life in America.
Well, loss of civil liberties and ever expanding security beuracracy has been the trend has it not? Meanwhile not just the regulations themselves but the *ability* to regulate industry is being meta-bargained away with things like the TPP (it will limit the ability for states and feds to regulate even if they wanted to - international corporate law that is superior to soveriegnty).
To say that much of the MSM is bad is to say something totally obvious. I don't expect anything good out of it anymore. I only expect the worst.
I don't think the media has any agenda other than to service the general fasination of the public with these kinds of things. Like Steve pointed out, the fertilzer plant was a natural event and thus...tragic but boring in many ways to public interest. Where as the attack in Boston by 2 seemingly bright and well adjusted young men with no apparent terrorist ties to their homeland is interesting. Just the sheer speculation of all the what-fors and possible what-ifs makes it interesting to follow. I just watch a bit to catch up and then turn off the TV (or go to a network that has other stuff on) so don't get the 24/7 news casts. However I do miss other news - like what's going on with the gun and immigration debate, the weather and what else is going on in the world - but they generally touch on that stuff briefly..Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
I found it much easier to just catch up with the news occasionally online and then drop it. The few times I saw TV news, it was pretty boring and I hate it when they thrust a camera and mike in someone's face.
I normally don't watch much talking head type news, but thought the media coverage was good and got my attention. You had a couple of wild yahoos on the loose spewing bullets and explosives, and who knows what further and possibly more serious plans they had for acts of terrorism. As far as that goes, now that it is basically over, I wonder if there might be some sort of organized group who was in on all of this. I suppose in terms of priorities, these things are somewhat daily events in some places around the globe and we only hear blurbs about them. The great thing about TV news is that it can be turned off easily.
it's interesting. i no longer watch the news. i read headlines, and then read more if I want. Might watch a short online video (news or just raw footage, etc).
it makes life so much nicer.
but, is anyone else concerned about the martial-law look of boston in photos? and searches of homes without warrants (just going door to door and searching?). Of course, people can permit police to search their homes, which circumvents this -- but what if someone refused? then what? a shoot-out at their home? harassment? going to get a warrant?
I look at it and go "wow, americans are getting increasingly comfortable with a police state."
and that freaks me out.
and I don't even think that Alex Jones is completely on his rocker (i don't think he's completely off, either).
Someone walking around blowing up people concerns me more than my house being searched..........Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoebird
I guess I just don't get complaints of being bored by the 7x24 news cycle. No offense to anyone. Just that watching the news ad nauseum is a choice. Bored of the talking heads and the repeated tape loops? Use the Censorship button. It's labeled "OFF". Take a walk, cook something, whittle, read a book. Watch the sitcom channel. I certainly will beef that most TV news is incredibly superficial and geared more toward selling soap than informing. It used to be much better. But that's another discussion.
I don't happen to be very conspiracy-minded. But I don't reject conspiracy theorists out of hand. I agree that there has been a push since 9/11 to legitimize activity that clearly runs afoul of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights and people's own self-interests. I wouldn't even argue very hard against labeling the effort exploitive. But I think if that were the primary agenda, we'd be seeing more coverage of terrorism all over the world with the explicit message that it could happen here unless we (continue to) cash in our Constitutional rights.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
It is interesting that IEDs in Iraq or Afghanistan don't even warrant a mention in the news anymore now that they're not injuring American troops, but the equivalent of two of them on Boylston Street gave rise to the massive press effort that we just witnessed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
yea and I think I've made a decision about it too, staying inside was voluntary (it wasn't even illegal to go outside, as far as I know, it was just advised to stay inside), so ... if I'm told to stay inside I'm going out, gonna paint the town. It's the least we can do to resist the police state. Go out of our !@#$ houses. Now a natural disaster would be different and I don't know, I haven't made those types of plans for a 9.0 earthquake or something but I doubt in such a situation staying inside would be advised, I'm just saying something similar. A whole city was shut down for two (and soon only one) crazies - can you say overreaction?Quote:
but, is anyone else concerned about the martial-law look of boston in photos?
What Americans? @#$# their curfews @#$# their imprisonment in people's homes. I'm an American last I checked (haha, maybe a Californian first and foremost :)).Quote:
and searches of homes without warrants (just going door to door and searching?). Of course, people can permit police to search their homes, which circumvents this -- but what if someone refused? then what? a shoot-out at their home? harassment? going to get a warrant?
I look at it and go "wow, americans are getting increasingly comfortable with a police state."
yea it's disturbing, the least one can do is refuse to obey their "shelter in place" ordersQuote:
and that freaks me out.
"With an iron fist in a velvet glove
We are sheltered under the gun"
shelter in place - that phrase is like verbal waterboarding
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
All that said, the strategy did work in this instance. What worries me is they are now casually discussing dimissing the rights of a US citizen (redefining him as an enemy combatant) just because it may be more expedient to do so.
see, thing is, that doesn't concern me much.Quote:
Originally Posted by poetry_writer
to me, this is just a process of getting people acclimated to these sorts of searches.
it's easy enough for media to assert "there's a dangerous person in your area. police will be coming by to search your homes for him/her in due time."
and everyone is then supposed to go "oh, ok." becuase it might be true that someone might be dangerous and might do something?
I don't know. I feel like I'm turning into Alex Jones about this.
creaker. i head you there.
I live just outside of Boston and go into Boston to work for about 10 hours a day, five days a week, and then do homework on the side. I work about three blocks away from where the explosions happened. My company gives us Patriot's Day off as a holiday. I've never watched the marathon in my entire life; would just as soon watch paint dry. So spent Monday hiking in the woods and then working in the garden, and a friend came by, talking of explosions and such. I might not have known about it for a few more hours, but I would have heard about it on FB that night, if Scott hadn't come by. So went to work the next day with some trepedation about traffic, etc. but it was pretty OK except for media people, etc. in the way. I had a planned vacation day yesterday, but a robot called in the early AM to say that the city was closed and the office wasn't going to open until 10 AM. Then got another message that the city was CLOSED and to stay home! Spent hours walking in the woods and enjoying the day off, and came home to an e-mail from my manager that one of my employees, who lives far away (Hyannis) had gone to work and was one of the few people in the building. They gave them free caf food & water, and later in the day, sent her home in a livery car when the shut down order was lifted. Gotta love my company for keeping an eye out for my employee and sending her home in a livery car!
ETA: I've not watched one moment of TV coverage of the event. I just don't really do TV. I'm not really sure how to turn the damned thing on even.