Iris lilies, how are things in your hood?

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Originally Posted by CathyA

Rob........the looters don't give a rat's ass about social change or laws.

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No, no they don't. Are you surprised that I agree with you 100%? But what of the other 19,000 or so residents of Ferguson? What about people like me who are afraid to be out and about at night - after 9 PM - due to fear of the police? Not all of Ferguson is rioting and looting, and there seems to be the perception that all of Ferguson is. Nope, not true. Also there have been incident after incident by the authorities since the shooting of Brown that really make them look heavy handed and with a basic disrespect for those they are supposed to protect and serve. Rob

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

Well, well, well.....I just googled and found out that the police in Ferguson have once again crossed the line and arrested two more journalists but let them go after two minutes and threatened one photographer with shooting him if he did not stop photographing. Uh huh. And we pay taxes for these people's pensions?

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I didn't see this yet Rob so don't know if this was the case or not. But as one of those people :-) who get a "LE Public Safety" government pensions, my experience is that in LE and/or military situations (like the Nat. Guard) it is very common to move people out of danger zones (by force if needed) in order to protect them from harm or to better control a situation. This is also the case when it comes to reporters who often put LE people in danger (as well as other civilians) when they are in the way of police or Nat. Guard who then can't preform their duties in a less dangerous way - to protect themselves as well as the public they are paid to protect.

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Originally Posted by CathyA

In reading articles about why the blacks of Ferguson are reacting the way they are, is that there aren't any black policemen there. Why not? How many blacks have applied for jobs there and been turned down? Were they qualified and turned down? Why isn't anyone bringing up the issues of how difficult it might be for Caucasians to be in the middle of a culture that they're not that comfortable with? Or among a group of people (within that community) who are consistently causing trouble. All I'm saying is cops are only human and they have their tipping points too. They can reach saturation points where they just can't deal with one more thug.
And I think the media seeming to take the side of the protestors is demonstrating how totally unacceptable it is to say anything negative about a certain race of people.......even if they are acting in an unacceptable way.

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Both sides are acting in an unacceptable way as far as I am concerned. That said, not all of Ferguson is out there rioting and looting or even protesting. Out of a small city of 22,000, has anyone seen 22,000 people hit the streets? Sure seems that on the side of the authorities, which are much fewer in number, a much higher percentage of them have been engaging in shady behavior.....I'm just glad that human rights teams from abroad are coming. I'm also glad that they will tweet and Facebook and blog of their experiences to others.....I see it as flattening denial and balancing things out a bit. Rob

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Originally Posted by Spartana

I didn't see this yet Rob so don't know if this was the case or not. But as one of those people :-) who get a "LE Public Safety" government pensions, my experience is that in LE and/or military situations (like the Nat. Guard) it is very common to move people out of danger zones (by force if needed) in order to protect them from harm or to better control a situation. This is also the case when it comes to reporters who often put LE people in danger (as well as other civilians) when they are in the way of police or Nat. Guard who then can't preform their duties in a less dangerous way - to protect themselves as well as the public they are paid to protect.

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If you have a moment and you are open to it, go to yahoo.com - the story is titled Exit Wounds Indicate Brown Surrendered and it's the top story - if you go to yahoo.com you can't miss it. Rob

PS If indeed the authorities are trying to protect reporters from what is going on around them - great. I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is that they are not making this clear and are swooping down and arresting/assaulting/harassing them with no explanation that they need to move to be safe. Nope. That does not work for me, nor should it for anyone else, either. Those reporters are worth a two second explanation - something like We need you to move to ensure your safety - or molotovs are being thrown in the street, we need you to leave as it's not safe for you here - these reporters are worth that. That simple respect right there could have prevented litigation which is sure to arise now from harassed reporters knowing the dollar value of such police action. Rob

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

Both sides are acting in an unacceptable way as far as I am concerned. That said, not all of Ferguson is out there rioting and looting or even protesting. Out of a small city of 22,000, has anyone seen 22,000 people hit the streets? Sure seems that on the side of the authorities, which are much fewer in number, a much higher percentage of them have been engaging in shady behavior.....I'm just glad that human rights teams from abroad are coming. I'm also glad that they will tweet and Facebook and blog of their experiences to others.....I see it as flattening denial and balancing things out a bit. Rob

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I think these people coming in will only confuse the issues. Do I think our entire country needs help with the direction we're going? Absolutely..........But I don't think this is what is needed right now in Ferguson, MO.

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Originally Posted by Spartana

They may also want to look at things like probable brain dysfunction caused by disease and/or drug use that may have caused him (Brown) to act irrationally. Given his size, he might have been a high school football player who suffered head trauma at some point. But mostly they will want to rule out things rather then look for things. Best to be thorough in a case like this.

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i'm all for testing for drug use.....that would explain a lot if he tests positive for something that would encourage violent behavior. And yeah, thorough works here, definitely. Rob

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Originally Posted by CathyA

I think these people coming in will only confuse the issues. Do I think our entire country needs help with the direction we're going? Absolutely..........But I don't think this is what is needed right now in Ferguson, MO.

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I don't see it as confusing the issues. I see it as flattening the reach of heavy handedness and squashing what seems to be an old boys network. It also will serve to make the rest of the world more aware of America's rot and I'm guessing (?) those sent will be younger people, very adept with technology and able to get those third world images out pronto. Also happy and more than able to get any police heavy handedness to journalists on the ground in Ferguson out there online and on Twitter for the rest of the world to peruse and judge America by. Good. This country has earned that IMHO. Rob

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

No, no they don't. Are you surprised that I agree with you 100%? But what of the other 19,000 or so residents of Ferguson? What about people like me who are afraid to be out and about at night - after 9 PM - due to fear of the police? Not all of Ferguson is rioting and looting, and there seems to be the perception that all of Ferguson is. Nope, not true. Also there have been incident after incident by the authorities since the shooting of Brown that really make them look heavy handed and with a basic disrespect for those they are supposed to protect and serve. Rob

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Before this happened you would have been foolish to be in north city/county after dark. You would hope that a policeman may be around to protect you.

I was was talking with my insurance guy today and he said most insurance company's don't pay for damage due to rioting or civil unrest. Anyone still doing business in these areas are nuts.

"Exit Wounds Indicate Brown Surrendered" - the story doesn't seem to be as conclusive as Rob claims. In particular, the crime reconstruction/ballistics expert making the statement is the family's lawyer:

"Lawyers for Brown's family said the results of of the preliminary autopsy support witness accounts that Brown was trying to surrender when he was shot.

"Why would he be shot in the very top of his head? A 6'4" man," attorney Daryl Parks said. "Makes no sense."


I have testified as a wound ballistics expert in court. From the information I've casually scene about the report, I could come up with a variety of scenarios. I'd want real data in front of me to make a real judgement, and I certainly wouldn't come to a conclusion and release it to the media in a press conference on such short order. Unless I knew nothing about wound ballistics and was a lawyer trying to make hay.

Rob, you are seeing only what you want to see, you are uninformed, and you have prejudged the entire business. Luckily, you'd never be allowed near a jury box for a case like this.

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

If you have a moment and you are open to it, go to yahoo.com - the story is titled Exit Wounds Indicate Brown Surrendered and it's the top story - if you go to yahoo.com you can't miss it. Rob

PS If indeed the authorities are trying to protect reporters from what is going on around them - great. I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is that they are not making this clear and are swooping down and arresting/assaulting/harassing them with no explanation that they need to move to be safe. Nope. That does not work for me, nor should it for anyone else, either. Those reporters are worth a two second explanation - something like We need you to move to ensure your safety - or molotovs are being thrown in the street, we need you to leave as it's not safe for you here - these reporters are worth that. That simple respect right there could have prevented litigation which is sure to arise now from harassed reporters knowing the dollar value of such police action. Rob

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I will look up that link - thanks. Haven't heard any new evidence yet but if it's in that should cleat up a lot. And yes, there are rogue cops that do terrible things out of anger or stress or whatever. No one's denying that happens. You saw that when the police chief killed someone next to him in a movie theatre. And those LEO's should be brought to justice of course.

As for the reporters and rioting (a separate issue to the shooting IMHO). it's not just about protecting the reporters, it's about getting them to move the hell out of the way asap so that police can protect other civilians from harm as well as their property and quell a violent situation. Probably everyone who's ever worked in LE or public safety has had to arrest, detain or physically remove other's who are hindering their efforts to help others. Sometimes in order to do so you have to become physical if they are choosing to disobey the law.

PS Yep I'm still travelling but home at the moment to take care of some stuff/obligations. Will be leaving again soon I hope...like maybe tomorrow ;-)!