Government Coup

I see where Hesgeth is proposing to eliminate support of the Scouts, formally the Boy Scouts. Reading the article, the military support didn't seem all the much, a few jamborees and camping on military grounds, etc. I'm not sure the value of the scouts anymore. At one time there was some emphasis on outdoor skills, but I think there has been a shift more towards community service and personal development. His reasoning somehow was twisted around some sort of inclusion issues. I think young boys have shifted interest from outdoor skills or other clubs to computer games, anyway. I hope he doesn't go after Girl Scout Cookies! I was a scout as was my dad and an uncle was a scout leader. Maybe the time for scouts has passed after some of the abuse issues. Seems like Hesgeth should have better things to do.

My grandson is a boyscout and it's pretty much like I remember it, lots of outdoor camping and skills. Granddaughter is a Brownie and I am so excited to finally have a cookie connection in the family.

I think it's funny that I was anti boy scouts because of their former lack of inclusiveness, and now Hegseth disapproves of them due to their inclusiveness. I'm sure Hegseth's disapproval will be more of a concern that my disapproval ever was.

I really loathe Hegseth. Every picture I see of him and his perfect hair makes me wonder how much time he spent practicing his look and facial expressions in the mirror, because you just know that he does. Of course the real issue is having someone so completely unqualified at the head of our military; it just boggles the mind.

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Originally Posted by rosarugosa

I think it's funny that I was anti boy scouts because of their former lack of inclusiveness, and now Hegseth disapproves of them due to their inclusiveness. I'm sure Hegseth's disapproval will be more of a concern that my disapproval ever was.

I really loathe Hegseth. Every picture I see of him and his perfect hair makes me wonder how much time he spent practicing his look and facial expressions in the mirror, because you just know that he does. Of course the real issue is having someone so completely unqualified at the head of our military; it just boggles the mind.

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A rumor circulating was that he had a make up room in the Pentagon, which I think was downgraded to a table with a mirror, make up light and a directors chair. If I were one of his generals, I'd have trouble taking him seriously, but I guess they have to. On the loathesome scale it's hard to pick the most loathsome of the Trump crew. Mark Kelly posted a selfie of his uniformed chest dripping with medals and a long description of his experience serving the military on some social media over the "you do not have to follow illegal orders" issue in a troll of Hesgeth's meager military experience.

I googled countries with death penalties for drug smuggling and MAGA is in good company with a few other third world countries. I couldn't add a filter, without a trial, but I suspect those others countries don't have much of a trial either.

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Originally Posted by Alan

You're misrepresenting me. I mentioned several posts back that I'm sure there have been illegal or improper military orders given within a defined chain of command but am unaware of any military orders issued by the CIC or SecDef that turned out to be illegal. Perhaps you are more aware than I? Can you share?

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It looks like he supposed murder of the two survivors from the drug boat demolition may test your theory.

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Originally Posted by Rogar

It looks like he supposed murder of the two survivors from the drug boat demolition may test your theory.

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I don't think that was a theory but rather a fact as far as I know. I would have thought the one fairly recent event that would have changed that fact was the CIC targeted drone strike against an American citizen in Yemen about 15 years ago, followed by subsequent strikes which did not target but did kill a couple additional US citizens. But, those were not found to be illegal based upon judges interpretation of authority. I shudder to think what would have happened to the drone operator on that initial strike if he/she had taken it upon his/her self to refuse the order as your "patriotic" representative seems to now imply they should have.

Maybe this will be a first, then. The coincidence of the drug boat issues and the warning from the six so called seditious democrats is certainly somewhat coincidental. Hesgeth will probably be on the hot seat regardless.

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Originally Posted by Rogar

Maybe this will be a first, then. The coincidence of the drug boat issues and the warning from the six so called seditious democrats is certainly somewhat coincidental. Hesgeth will probably be on the hot seat regardless.

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Yes, I think he will be, as he should if there's anything to the latest allegations. For the sake of uniformity and overall justice we can only hope that it is handled in a manner consistent with facts, historical roles and responsibilities rather than as a political gotcha. Although in the current political environment I'm not sure that's possible, especially when the entire kerfuffel is based upon just a couple of conveniently anonymous sources.

I wonder if a president can pardon a person who is guilty of committing war crimes. Not that that's the case, just wondering.

This is the latest news I've seen.

White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt confirmed on Monday that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth authorized the second, follow-up strike on an alleged drug boat in the Caribbean in September following a bombshell Washington Post report that claimed he ordered the military to “kill everybody.”

"Leavitt told reporters at the White House press briefing that Hegseth authorized Adm. Frank Bradley to carry out the second strike, which reportedly killed two people who were hanging onto the burning vessel after an initial strike."

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Originally Posted by Rogar

I wonder if a president can pardon a person who is guilty of committing war crimes. Not that that's the case, just wondering.

This is the latest news I've seen.

White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt confirmed on Monday that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth authorized the second, follow-up strike on an alleged drug boat in the Caribbean in September following a bombshell Washington Post report that claimed he ordered the military to “kill everybody.”

"Leavitt told reporters at the White House press briefing that Hegseth authorized Adm. Frank Bradley to carry out the second strike, which reportedly killed two people who were hanging onto the burning vessel after an initial strike."

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I think you have to apply a little critical thinking on this. If you issue a lawful order to the military to destroy a boat containing dangerous drugs enroute to the US for final distribution and the strike fails to sink the entire boat and cargo, is it illegal or perhaps even a 'war crime' to order the military to strike the boat again to finish the job? If you consider the previous strikes against similar targets the answer would be a resounding 'No'. However, if you shift the narrative to say that the second strike was ordered only to "kill them all" rather than complete the mission, that might be another matter all together. One makes operational sense, the other does not. The one thing to watch out for is whatever the political opposition to an administration wants you to believe.

I am open to the possibility that two survivors were clinging to boat debris after the boat was destroyed, and there was a second order to kill the two survivors who posed absolutely no threat. If indeed a second order was to "kill everyone" knowing there were shipwreck survivors clinging to the destroyed boat, the intent is quite clear regardless of how it's worded. I assume there are records of these specific orders or discussions, if they will be released.

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Originally Posted by Rogar

I am open to the possibility that two survivors were clinging to boat debris after the boat was destroyed, and there was a second order to kill the two survivors who posed absolutely no threat.

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Well there you go, no further discussion necessary.

I assume the White House explanation covers you end of speculation.

Leavitt said. “The president has made it quite clear that if narco-terrorists again are trafficking illegal drugs towards the United States, he has the authority to kill them. That is what this administration is doing.”

There are obviously two ends of the situation. Maybe you know from your experiences with military law how things will be resolved? I gather even a couple of GOP congressmen are asking for an inquiry and demands for records to be released and people testifying under oath. Military tribunal?

Fentanyl/drug trafficking is the convenient red herring for less easy-to-explain aspects of Trump's foreign policy.

Good article on duty now being charged on formerly de minimis shipments.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/01/b...core-ios-share

okay---hooray for our side! That's what they get for trafficing dangerous drugs into the United States. Now---is there any other business we need to see to? Thankk Mee.

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Originally Posted by Tradd

Good article on duty now being charged on formerly de minimis shipments.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/01/b...core-ios-share

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I regularly ordered items from Aliexpress in China but have cut that out since I have no idea how much tariffs are and how they are collected.

I like to buy paintings from Denmark but now too nervous to do so.

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Originally Posted by Tybee

I like to buy paintings from Denmark but now too nervous to do so.

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Good! Just say no! If you can’t source it within the US, don’t buy it.

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Originally Posted by Tradd

Good! Just say no! If you can’t source it within the US, don’t buy it.

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Alas, many of the things I desire/require come from Europe or Asia, and there are no US suppliers of those goods, at any price.

So I spend my money on vacations overseas instead. That surely helps my own personal economy, though perhaps not the USA’s.

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Originally Posted by Tybee

I like to buy paintings from Denmark but now too nervous to do so.

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the last three major pieces of art I purchased came from Europe. Two of them were in late October or early Novemberr and all were over $800, so I’m a little puzzled that tarriffs were not charged, and I was shocked at how quickly they came. They were delivered through DHS and I think it was a only a week-ish.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

the last three major pieces of art I purchased came from Europe. Two of them were in late October or early Novemberr and all were over $800, so I’m a little puzzled that tarriffs were not charged, and I was shocked at how quickly they came. They were delivered through DHS and I think it was a only a week-ish.

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Some shippers are covering the duties.

And it’s tariffs, not tarrifs.

Tariffs have had so many changes that I've lost track of any that seem significant. However, I was browsing some vintage upscaled rugs that would ship from Turkey and was curious if there would be additional fees.

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Originally Posted by Rogar

Tariffs have had so many changes that I've lost track of any that seem significant. However, I was browsing some vintage upscaled rugs that would ship from Turkey and was curious if there would be additional fees.

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Where they made in Turkey? If so, 15% flat rate. Country of origin (manufacture) counts, not where something ships from.

NYT has an excellent tariff tracker.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...f-tracker.html

Flexport is a very large freight forwarder/customs broker. They have an excellent tariff calculator.

https://tariffs.flexport.com/

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Originally Posted by Tradd

Where they made in Turkey? If so, 15% flat rate. Country of origin (manufacture) counts, not where something ships from.

NYT has an excellent tariff tracker.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...f-tracker.html

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The tracker was interesting. The rugs are vintage from the 1960's and 70's so I am no sure where they were made. I put one in a check out cart out of curiosity I didn't see any additional add on's.

I believe my lace curtains are coming from Scotland. I had looked at so many lace curtains online that my head was spinning. When I finally found what I wanted and the ability to customize sizes, I was not going to let tariffs stop me from moving ahead. However, there was no indication that there was any add-on for tariffs when I made my purchase. Funny enough, the business owner is in the Boston area, and I had a lot of correspondence with her. They used to have a bricks and mortar store in Boston's Back Bay, but now they are online only. She told me how many yards of lace to order, and said they would come with an invoice from the seamstress for the custom sizing. So it was a somewhat unusual transaction in that apparently they are trusting me to pay for the seamstress after I receive my product. I mean, we all know I'm good for it, but the folks at London Lace don't know me at all.

My amaryllis bulb order this year did have an add-on for tariffs. I get them from a nursery in CT, but they import them from the Netherlands. It was a 6% add-on.

Rosa, some sellers don’t have their systems set up to tell you about tariffs. That’s all ok the buyer. So expect separate bill.

Rogar, I have bought a lot of rugs from this guy who ships from North Carolina, I believe, and he is wonderful, with great prices:

Rugsource

on Ebay

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Originally Posted by Tybee

Rogar, I have bought a lot of rugs from this guy who ships from North Carolina, I believe, and he is wonderful, with great prices:

Rugsource

on Ebay

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Thanks. I checked it out and it's similar to the places I was browsing on Etsy, but ships from the US. I'll browse more seriously later, but looks interesting.

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Originally Posted by Rogar

Thanks. I checked it out and it's similar to the places I was browsing on Etsy, but ships from the US. I'll browse more seriously later, but looks interesting.

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Ships from the US is what you want. No tariff hassle since it’s already here.

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Originally Posted by Tybee

Rogar, I have bought a lot of rugs from this guy who ships from North Carolina, I believe, and he is wonderful, with great prices:

Rugsource

on Ebay

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I look at rugs from Rugsource too!

It's always refreshing to see conservatives that buck the GOP. For instance, George Will who wrote about the "moral slum of an administration." I love the way he phrased this, for instance: "Rubio, whose well-known versatility of convictions is perhaps not infinite,...,"

This piece is about the war crime against the Venezuelan boat survivors by the Defense Department.

"The Sickenening Moral Slum of An Administration"

I'm teaching a piece by Elie Wiesel this week and it contained this quote:

"Indifference is not a beginning, it is an end. And, therefore, indifference is always the friend of the enemy, for it benefits the aggressor -- never his victim, whose pain is magnified when he or she feels forgotten. The political prisoner in his cell, the hungry children, the homeless refugees -- not to respond to their plight, not to relieve their solitude by offering them a spark of hope is to exile them from human memory. And in denying their humanity we betray our own."

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Originally Posted by Tybee

I'm teaching a piece by Elie Wiesel this week and it contained this quote:

"Indifference is not a beginning, it is an end. And, therefore, indifference is always the friend of the enemy, for it benefits the aggressor -- never his victim, whose pain is magnified when he or she feels forgotten. The political prisoner in his cell, the hungry children, the homeless refugees -- not to respond to their plight, not to relieve their solitude by offering them a spark of hope is to exile them from human memory. And in denying their humanity we betray our own."

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Great quote, Tybee.

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Originally Posted by Tybee

I'm teaching a piece by Elie Wiesel this week and it contained this quote:

"Indifference is not a beginning, it is an end. And, therefore, indifference is always the friend of the enemy, for it benefits the aggressor -- never his victim, whose pain is magnified when he or she feels forgotten. The political prisoner in his cell, the hungry children, the homeless refugees -- not to respond to their plight, not to relieve their solitude by offering them a spark of hope is to exile them from human memory. And in denying their humanity we betray our own."

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Moving and well said.

Friends here have had enough of the rabid trump administration and are moving out of the country. He is from Holland and has been here probably 25 years. It saddens me to see them go but wish them the best. If I could, I would leave as well. I checked different options but it is not viable. See trump is getting more authority to fire even more government higher ups. The gerrymandering in TX has been approved also. It truly makes my stomach churn!

Not sure if you can read this. The New Yorker doesn’t have gift article options like the Times. This is about Americans leaving for the Netherlands due to Orange Man. Very interesting read.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...-leave-the-usa

You will find this very interesting on the tariffs.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/welc...omplexity-hell

Wish could go one day without hearing idiot stuff trump is doing (or even not hearing his name)! Bombed 20 boats and now abducted an oil tanker…WTH! He’ll get us in a war yet!