Iris lilies, how are things in your hood?

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Originally Posted by Spartana

But Rob what is the dominant view here? It seems to me that most everyone is saying "lets wait for the evidence before passing judgment on any one - Brown or the cop." "Lets not riot and destroy property and people's livilyhood until we know the answers." Why is that the "wrong" view to have? That is due process each person should be afforded under the law.

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My take? Honestly? My take is that there has been obvious intimidation and heavy handedness by the police SINCE the shooting death that seriously needs to be addressed and my take is that many posters here are OK with this and are willing to sweep it under the rug. I'm not someone willing to sweep these issues under the rug. I'm not down with journalists getting arrested, I find that very much chilling, and I'm not down with the militarization of the police, my belief is that this inspires Molotovs from the troublemakers. Not that they should be throwing them in the first place mind you but the police response seems to be that who they are dealing with deserve militarization. I don't apologize for having major issues with this. Those people in Ferguson? Anyone one of us could just as easily be one of them instead of who were are. Rob

And I really just can't break from this thread.....sorry about that. Going now.

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

Thank you, Spartana. Apology graciously accepted. Of cource I'm OK with the police doing what they need to do re the looting and the rioting. Let me state that clearly right here and now. My issue is that beyond that, I have seen heavy handedness that I'm very much not OK with. Rioting and looting don't work for me so if anyone else thinks they do - please dispel yourselves of that notion if you would be so kind. And thanks again, Spartana, I do appreciate it. Rob

And now I'm going to leave for 24 hours. I just had to respond to your kind apology and reasonable post. Rob

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Thanks to your thanks :-)! I do get "het up" sometimes on this board and don't think my responses thru thoroughly - plus I can't write very well - so it often comes out a different way then I meant it too.

Have fun with your 24 hour break. You probably need it :-)!

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

And I really just can't break from this thread.....sorry about that. Going now.

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Robbbbbb........ we are calling your name....... Come backkkkkkk.........Resistance is futile Brahahahahahahahahaha

I guess that's were I respectfully disagree as I don't see myself or the other posters being OK with police intimidation or brutality and, if it exists, wanting to sweep it under the rug. I just see that they want to see justice served in a proper way - allowing due process and investigation of the individuals involved to be upheld before a "guilty" sign is hung on someone. But we all see and feel things differently so what one poster writes will have different meanings to each of us.

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

The second thing is that I have a date Friday night due to my stance of Ferguson - can you believe it? For the first time in more years than I care to admit to in public I'm actually going on a date. Still stunned by that one. How it ties into Ferguson is after my banquet shift, a bunch of us were waiting for the light rail - and this guy I have worked with before went up to me and started talking about Ferguson and asked my take on it. Apparently I said what he wanted to hear as he asked me out but I was 100% honest. So we'll see how this goes. Very bizarre to me that the tragedy in Ferguson could lead to such a thing happening, I honestly thought that part of my life was over and had accepted it. Rob

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Congrats on the date! I imagine you'll have plenty to talk to just rehashing this thread to him. Or maybe there will be a Ferguson protest and some riots in Phoenix Friday and whenever people ask you how the two of you met you'll share the romantic story of how on your first date you spent the whole night together... in jail. :-)

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I guess that's were I respectfully disagree as I don't see myself or the other posters being OK with police intimidation or brutality and, if it exists, wanting to sweep it under the rug. I just see that they want to see justice served in a proper way - allowing due process and investigation of the individuals involved to be upheld before a "guilty" sign is hung on someone.

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But how often are cops reprimanded by the law, serve time, etc. when they are the accused? Some of us think it's very naive to assume a trial with a cop involved is likely to come out unbiased rather than slanted in their favor. Of course a trial where the issue has made worldwide news is another matter, but at least in your run of the mill trial where the accused is a cop.

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Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

But how often are cops reprimanded by the law, serve time, etc. when they are the accused? Some of us think it's very naive to assume a trial with a cop involved is likely to come out unbiased rather than slanted in their favor. Of course a trial where the issue has made worldwide news is another matter, but at least in your run of the mill trial where the accused is a cop.

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Very, very, very rarely. I guess the powers that be fear that they won't attract enough head-busters if one of them actually gets called to account now and again. On Forbes' list of most psychopathic professions, police officer is number seven*, for whatever it's worth (and I don't know how you quantify such things).

*http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellycla...t-psychopaths/

Great link!

The general theme of the article, I might agree with. But, I think the author was "shooting from the hip" when they made up their list. I think there are people of each type-- empathetic, or psycho in every one of those occupations--but by no means every individual. I've known teachers that I thought were mean, and others that were Saints. Same with veterinarians, which wasn't on the list. If you combine the prospect of doing some fast driving, and the opportunity to carry a gun or other weapon, yes--I believe you're going to attract some overly-aggressive personalities into law enforcement. The rent-a-cops in security jobs, are the best example of that, here. It may even be a useful trait to have, at times. Some jobs require thick skin, because they continually deal with unpleasant situations & become jaded--but as long as the person can play by the rules--professionalism-- that's what matters. I think the real issue though, is how to screen out true deviants------people who make their own rules--- in the hiring phase, and have processes that see to it the rules and procedures are in place and adhered to--and including a universal "no rehire" policy for bad cops, doctors, teachers, etc. Because of self-auditing & self-serving systems, I think there is justifiable skepticism about police departments conducting internal investigations and having the last word in the matter, when citizens file complaints about police brutality, etc. This "young boy" in Ferguson was no Angel, that's for sure. Not exactly the poster child for bad cop behavior. But, that does not mean there isn't a problem.

Well, two good things to come from this maybe. One, the city is looking into cops wearing those little cameras. I do believe all cops should wear them. I don't think they cost much and they are small enough to not get in the way of the cop. But, I hope those calling for this know that those cameras will ALSO show for certain the behavior of the other/person being stopped. No more calling police brutality when the camera shows different. Personally, I think cameras will force accountability from BOTH sides. Does anyone know if those also record sound? Having audio would also be very helpful I think.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mic...ameras-n184431

and
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...ive-disgusting

Although it would seem the republicans weren't counting on this. I think it's a great idea! What better time to remind people that they in fact can direct the course of their town. Voter turnout is pathetic everywhere but even more so in this town. So while these people are complaining and marching, some are saying here...this is how you change it. Looks like a positive redirect to me.

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Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

But how often are cops reprimanded by the law, serve time, etc. when they are the accused? Some of us think it's very naive to assume a trial with a cop involved is likely to come out unbiased rather than slanted in their favor. Of course a trial where the issue has made worldwide news is another matter, but at least in your run of the mill trial where the accused is a cop.

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I agree that it's naïve to assume cops who commit crimes or use excessive force will always be convicted or punished for their behavior. Same with criminals. Bad people often go free and good people are often unjustly condemned. However that isn't any reason to circumvent the justice system - flawed as it is - and pass rash and biased judgment. It's no more right to just assume that the white cop is guilty so hang 'em high, as it is to assume that the black teen is guilty so hang him high. Let our flawed judicial process work to the best of it's ability, and continue to assume people are innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before passing judgment and handing out punishments.

As for the riots and the use of force issue for that...well everyone's take will be different. Rob and some others here view it as cops using excessive force. Others here (me) feel they are using the proper amount of force given the situation. And still others here may believe they aren't using enough force to stop the violence. So it's hard to have a discussion about it when we all have such different opinions.