Printable View
I was thinking of that incident last week, but it was fuzzy in my mind which side was against what and exactly what the details were. I just remember thinking at the time this is much ta doo about nothing, but it was a giant news story for many days.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Yes, that incident sank Janet Reno's career. It was basically a custody battle, right?
oh no, it was Waco that caused permanent disgust with Janet Reno. 80 people died including families with children.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
Eliss Gonzales I don’t give a … about, but Waco is another story.
And dogs. Initial report of one of the agents were that the first shot was when they were killing the dog. Later retracted with the story the the evil extremists shot first.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
My alphorn finally arrived today. I had to order it from Austria instead of Switzerland, because apparently Switzerland is America's Enemy, and the tariff was higher than on Austria.
When our local I.C.E. alert goes off on the island, I will be serenading a good part of the island from the mountain I live on, down into the lower valley/sound. I tested today, and it carried for miles and miles, and I got good reverb.
That’s a great idea, Bae!Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
I can almost remember that photo. They've gotten a lot better with body armor and the scare factor of face masking.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Going back to the "who's tougher on immigration--Republicans vs Democrates": here's an interesting chart published by the Department of Homeland Security. This is interesting and scary thing to me because it reminds me of the power of a single message delivered effectively. That message may be as short as three words: "Build a wall". Three words have the power to be the cornerstone of a narrative that comes with preconceptions and untruths. In this case, the narrative that Democrats are lazy on border security--making you and your neighbors vulnerable to violent crime.
I have been in marketing my whole career and have been complicit in message-making and perception-bending. It fascinates me and scares me. Especially now that our messengers are delivered via social media and AI. I don't think there's an answer to how to shield ourselves individually and collectively from buying into these messages without reflection like the rats following the Pied Piper, other than constant vigilance to the truth and self-awareness of our own motivations and desires..
Attachment 6702
Yes, a good message. Constant vigilance for reason and truth and also remembering we share more values with our neighbors than the silly red/blue divisions indicate.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
Bae, certainly they had those over in Leavenworth? ;)
I listened to Trump's entire speech at Davos. I am very glad I had the welcome distraction of pottery to paint while listening. I feel sympathy for those in the audience who had to listen to his long, repetitious ramble without any pottery to paint.
I also listened to Mark Carney's speech. I cannot help but feel jealous of the Canadians for having an intelligent adult leading their country.
Listened at work via the BBC. I have to listen to this nonsense to see if anything about international trade is mentioned.
Listened to the mayor of Minneapolis after today’s killing. He again asks trump to remove or stand down from the terror ICE is causing in his city. Need to get federal law enforcement out! DS is seeing first hand the inhumane tactics being used by this administration to its own citizens. It is hard to believe this is happening here in the US!
this latest tragedy in Minneapolis is too bad and I’m sorry this happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
And yet, totally predictable.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
As is the ICE and White House's distorted version of events. The last 7 shots probably insured he wouldn't' be able to testify as a witness.
This what this fascist regime wants….To promote chaos and fear. Totally disgusting! Of course, they will not allow an investigation into events by local law enforcement because the feds can do whatever they want with impunity…Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
We all need to rise up and protest ✊
:help:The Senate will vote on the DHS appropriations bill next week -- and it cannot pass without Democratic votes. If you’re ready to take action, call your senators and demand they vote no on increased funding for ICE and Border Patrol.
The very conservative place I used to hang out a lot at and peek in at occasionally is mostly celebrating the newest murder by ICE. Anyone who is against them needs to be killed is what some are saying. If anyone points out this was a bad shoot, they are told they’re the enemy.
WOW! This is horrific! Celebration of killings, chaos and terror! Sounds like the insurrectionist crowd of Jan 6… lowlife Proud Boys and their ilk. I imagine that is who ICE recruited because it is hard to imagine anyone else wanting that job!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
That chatter is dumb. The twitter verse is a stupid place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
It’s not Twitter. It’s a big firearms forum I’ve been on for 15 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
I mean “Twitter verse “as a generic term for Internet chatter. Reddit is just as bad. The other ones I don’t frequent are just as bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
What are the qualifications to be on the streets as an ICE enforcer. National guard, armed forces and all police are required to have certain qualifications, training, clear guidance and experienced close supervision
does ice have this?.
They have to go through training, but I think it’s been reduced from 12 to 8 weeks as they have a lot they’re trying to push through. I heard they’re trying to target current police, but not sure if that’s true or not. If that’s really the case, hopefully they would already be decently trained, but tactics seem more brutal than they need to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere
The video reviews are looking an awfully lot like homicide while he was trying to help a woman who was pushed brutally into the snow. The first shot looks like the man was shot in the back. Trump, Miller, and Noem are evil and lying cowards.
I'd say it's worth a government shutdown if it means defunding ICE, but there needs to be more fundamental changes.
Everyone should look at the videos.
If you're in favor of defunding ICE does that also imply that you're in favor of ignoring immigration law and support open borders with little or no vetting for people coming into the country?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
I would think it would make a lot more sense to stop supporting jurisdictions which promote and actively encourage resistance to those agencies tasked with enforcing those laws. I'm certain that would be a much better way to take ICE and CBP officers off your radar. It seems to me that if you remove 'cause' from 'effect', everyday law enforcement is lots more peaceful.
You and I see different "causes" and "effects". The cause I see is a government targeting states and cities that disagree with much of their policy initiatives, and are advancing states rights over Federal interventions. (irony much?) That targeting of non-trump supporting areas without meaningful engagement of what is supposedly the core mission - removing illegals who are actively involved in criminal activities- and instead sweeping up many non-illegal immigrants and American citizens - IS the major cause of the current removal of ICE support among much of the American public. The EFFECT of this is protest and removal of support for ICE. YMMV, as it usually does, lol.Quote:
I would think it would make a lot more sense to stop supporting jurisdictions which promote and actively encourage resistance to those agencies tasked with enforcing those laws.
When we talk about "defunding" ICE it is more like returning ICE budgets back to 6B vs. 85B that it was increased to in the BigXBil. Looking at the data I presented in the earlier chart showing deportations under previous administrations of both parties, it appears that you can control immigration without "needing" almost 100B to do it. Money that could be used building community and supporting citizens in better ways.
I believe infiltrating American cities on a Federal level the way Trump has done it is not for security and safety--it is merely as a show of aggression, intimidation, and insult to his perceived adversaries. Right now there are more immigrants in detention with no criminal record than those with criminal records. These are people who have often been serving in their communities for decades, making no waves.
I believe that the straight-out lies of the administration alone should put everyone on notice. I don't know how any true American puts up with the moral bankruptcy and outright corruption of this administration.
I think the fact that Bondi is asking for the voting records for Minnesotans shows that the real target here is the citizenry, not the immigrants. Both people who were killed by them were citizens.
Quote:
I believe that the straight-out lies of the administration alone should put everyone on notice. I don't know how any true American puts up with the moral bankruptcy and outright corruption of this administration.
agree 1000 percent lol. maybe a bazillion-trillion percent. But way more than 100. 100% is for losers /sQuote:
I think the fact that Bondi is asking for the voting records for Minnesotans shows that the real target here is the citizenry, not the immigrants. Both people who were killed by them were citizens.
I mostly OK with ICE as long as they don't use brutal tactics on innocent people, harassment of American citizens, departing people to brutal prisons, homicide and withholding shooting evidence from the public. And Lying. They operated without those things for a couple of decades and among other regimes before Trump V.2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Given the estimated $300,000,000 to $1 billion in federal dollars fed into the Somali scams, it seems to me Minnesota may be kind of sloppy in administration of its programs, including those involving federal dollars. Let Minnesota give state money to undocumented immigrants all it likes. That’s fine, it’s Minnesota citizens making that decision. But not for federal programs.
So Biondi asking for for welfare program records, voting records, and etc. certainly is “intimidating” to Minnesota bureaucrats if they have to do that work and respond to record requests. But isn’t that their job as beneficiaries of federal dollars? An overall audit doesn’t seem unreasonable to me, even though I have little faith useful data will come out of it.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Minnesota is lacking in how it carries out voter registration. My favorite illegal immigrant, Dr. Ian Roberts, was registered to vote in the state of Maryland where he had a job just a few years ago. No, Maryland is not one of those states that allows non-citizen voter registration for a few local elections. The news of his Iowa arrest created calls in the Maryland statehouse for proof of citizenship when voting.
The people unlawfully here have impact on our society, both negative and positive. I think Dr. Ian Roberts is an excellent case study because he would have a fair number of defenders including many on this board saying “well he didn’t really do anything bad so he should stay” but did he? Did he do bad things? I mean, obviously he has a felony charge that’s related to guns but beyond that ?
I am concerned about loss of first amendment rights For US citizens. That is my primary concern and it does appear that street protests in Minnesota maybe causing some violations of first amendment freedom of assembly and etc.
I’m far less concerned about people here without legal authority to be here whether they are felons, criminals of other stripes, or squeaky clean contributing members of society.
WELL SAID!Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
They are gassing residential neighborhoods in Minneapolis with chemical agents.
What do you mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
The Tren de Aragua must be laughing their butts off.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine