Billions for Climate Change

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

I think that:

1. It is really too late to turn this ship around. We're probably in "runaway" climate change now, by what most of the research is showing.
2. Even if we could turn the ship around, we wouldn't.

So I just try to keep my hands reasonably clean and figure out ways that I can mitigate the effects of climate change in my own life -- choosing carefully where I live, living simply, avoiding more debts, learning some practical skills, and most of all -- being stoic when possible.

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+1

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

So if I'm understanding him correctly, a "revolution of love" involves reverting to a sort of nature-worship that requires treating everything everywhere as sacred and near inviolate? I don't see much room for civilization in that view of the world.

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And some might argue that's not a bad thing.

Civilizations are organized in densely populated settlements divided into hierarchical social classes with a ruling elite and subordinate urban and rural populations, which engage in intensive agriculture, mining, small-scale manufacture and trade. Civilization concentrates power, extending human control over the rest of nature, including over other human beings.[Wikipedia]

I am not a fan of civilization. Unfortunately I really don't know any other way of life.

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Originally Posted by catherine

And some might argue that's not a bad thing.

Civilizations are organized in densely populated settlements divided into hierarchical social classes with a ruling elite and subordinate urban and rural populations, which engage in intensive agriculture, mining, small-scale manufacture and trade. Civilization concentrates power, extending human control over the rest of nature, including over other human beings.[Wikipedia]

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I think it would be. I don't see life as a neolithic hunter-gatherer as all that attractive. If that's the alternative to muddling through and adapting to whatever comes, I'll take my chances with the number-crunchers.

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

I think it would be. I don't see life as a neolithic hunter-gatherer as all that attractive. If that's the solution to muddling through and adapting to whatever comes, I'll take my chances with the number-crunchers.

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I have read a fair amount about hunter-gatherers and they worked something like 10 - 15 hours a week, mostly hunting and gathering. ;)

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

I have read a fair amount about hunter-gatherers and they worked something like 10 - 15 hours a week, mostly hunting and gathering. ;)

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Sounds nice, but I'm too fond of dentistry, literature, clean underwear, and all the other little comforts that come with civilization to throw away the last 10,000 years or so.

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

I have read a fair amount about hunter-gatherers and they worked something like 10 - 15 hours a week, mostly hunting and gathering. ;)

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Yes and the rest of the week they smoked hallucinogenic plant life, fermented their own alcoholic drinks and sat around telling fables. With an occasional raid of a neighboring hunter gatherer group and possible homicide.

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

Sounds nice, but I'm too fond of dentistry, literature, clean underwear, and all the other little comforts that come with civilization to throw away the last 10,000 years or so.

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Oh, I readily admit I enjoy my antibiotics and such, but perhaps only because I've known them.

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Originally Posted by Williamsmith

Yes and the rest of the week they smoked hallucinogenic plant life, fermented their own alcoholic drinks and sat around telling fables. With an occasional raid of a neighboring hunter gatherer group and possible homicide.

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Were we in the same Fraternity in college?

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Originally Posted by catherine

So, is the reason you have not joined the climate change camp because you haven't been convinced that the scientists actually are committed what they're espousing? What would you need to see from them for you to say, "Holy cow, I guess 95% of the scientists are right--we're up s**t's creek!"?

I guess I'd have to look out my door and see the water rising up the mountain toward my house, or step outside in January or February and not need my snowshoes or maybe be found covered up by house debris one thousand yards from where my house used to stand and be told, "If you think that was something wait until you see what's coming tomorrow!" Short of that ....how about climate change becomes a major plank in the Republican Party platform. That will be a sure sign it's way too damn late!!

That seems like palliative care. How is that going to save the salmon and the cod when we will still be shoving them aside for our own desires?

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I love salmon......don't care much for cod. Can we make a selective sacrifice?