How is a lot of puerile name-calling an argument?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmac
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How is a lot of puerile name-calling an argument?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmac
Ahh, the "vultures and starving dogs" thing. Yup, it is puerile name calling. I certainly apologize if anyone took that as me calling them that. I posted that because it addresses many of the nonsensical positions routinely taken about Bitcoin.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
I will say however, that I understand the exasperation that prompted them to name call because those in the media, et al, routinely disseminate opinions based on what appears to be either negligence in due diligence or worse.
This is an example of such, past predictions of the demise of Bitcoin and there are a lot them:
http://bitcoinobituaries.com/
This is not an investment discussion group, not this thread anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
The purpose of this thread is not to advocate investing in Bitcoin the currency or even a Bitcoin company like Bitpay, for example. Although when I was asked, I respond as I already have: one to five percent of discretionary income.
My purpose was to offset the false information that is routinely disseminated by those who are invested in the status quo and to share a new vision of commerce that is twenty first century, old paradigm shattering, disruptive of legacy banking and financial institutions, empowering to the poor, egalitarian (a form of non-violent constructive program).
So bae, I guess I'd like to hear your explanation as to why, in a period (a year) of such steep decline in price, the investment rate in the technology of Bitcoin continues to rise dramatically? Are these entrepreneurs, who are investing to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, all fantasy-football types? That would seem to suggest a level of puffery that would be high, even for the most dedicated naysayer.
If I agreed to send you a dollar's worth of Bitcoin would you learn how to receive it?
No, you went quite a bit further. You encouraged investment in Bitcoin, with a 3-year horizon:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmac
I am not the one making the bold claims about the future of bitcoin and the block chain technology - the burden is on you. I have however asked *you* what investments you are making in this area, and how, and you dodge and weave. That speaks volumes.Quote:
So bae, I guess I'd like to hear your explanation as to why, in a period (a year) of such steep decline in price, the investment rate in the technology of Bitcoin continues to rise dramatically? Are these entrepreneurs, who are investing to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, all fantasy-football types? That would seem to suggest a level of puffery that would be high, even for the most dedicated naysayer.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iAHxhtsyez...13848_p465.gif
Nope. Say Bitcoin soars 20x over the next 3 years. I'd make $20 pre-tax profit, for the cost of 5-10 minutes to set up a wallet, and another 5 minutes to think of some way of remembering the keys in a useful fashion. Not really worth the time, I'd rather spend it chopping firewood or something useful.Quote:
If I agreed to send you a dollar's worth of Bitcoin would you learn how to receive it?
I said at least a three year time horizon.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
Suggesting a time horizon is quite a bit further?
I also said:
Yes, dollar cost averaging in over a five year time horizon would yield comparable returns to that of other similar speculative ventures. This is why it would be only part of a diversified portfolio.
Interpretation: "I can't explain it Xmac, because all I've got is sarcasm, diversionary tactics (like posting about Bitcoin price) and avoidance. Talking about the substance and merits of the videos you posted are too much work and might mean I'd have to open my mind".Quote:
I am not the one making the bold claims about the future of bitcoin and the block chain technology - the burden is on you./
Yes, volumes. You're not interested in discussing what's relevant.Quote:
I have however asked *you* what investments you are making in this area, and how, and you dodge and weave. That speaks volumes.
I've followed my own advice. Beyond that, it's nobody's business as to the particulars. As I said this is not an investment club. If you'd like to lay out your investment details on a public forum, be my guest.
1. One doesn't have to memorize one's key (not necessarily keyS) without any added security risk.Quote:
Nope. Say Bitcoin soars 20x over the next 3 years. I'd make $20 pre-tax profit, for the cost of 5-10 minutes to set up a wallet, and another 5 minutes to think of some way of remembering the keys in a useful fashion. Not really worth the time, I'd rather spend it chopping firewood or something useful.
2. No? To 20x over the next 3 years? I'll take that as recognition of the earnings potential and your level of investment savvy.
Wow.
https://medium.com/@octskyward/the-r...1f7#.5pyv27ycw
So, there's that....
Wow, $9000 tonight. That's a 42x bagger....and it didn't even take 3 years. !Splat!
What I have trouble understanding are the fundamentals that are pushing Bitcoin up. With a conventional investment security, you can evaluate things like market share, credit quality or new products in the pipeline. What can we point to that explains Bitcoin's recent rise, other than the exuberance of its enthusiasts? Are the major traditional currencies expected to collapse? Is it similar to a spike in gold prices? Is it truly a revolution in finance, or a sort of digital beanie baby? The whole phenomenon seem aromatic of a bubble to me.
Congrats,Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmac
still not for me .
Ill use my simple logic on it. I have never had anyone bragging on or selling me door to door anything that was worth a rats azz. That includes exchanging my hard earned real money that I can take to the pharmacy and get script, the grocery and get roast and the post office and get stamps......for a made up currency exchange that I can’t stuff in my pocket. Womp.....there it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by dmc
We have been mining for the past 4 years with my son. We use some of the profits to pay for the electricity. We are happy campers at this point. When it gets high we cash out 1 or 2 coins to lock in our profits. We have all taken many nice vacations with the profits. It is work for my son because he has to keep on top of things because stuff changes all the time but he enjoys doing it.
Terry, can you explain the procedure whereby you buy and then sell for a profit? I am unclear as to meaning of words you are using, like "mining."Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
I am NOT the brains of this operation. My son is and has spent a ton of time doing all this. Basically mining is with computers that are solving complicated math problems using computers. But the electricity to run them are not cheap. My son and DH built all the computers and we put them in our basement because it is important not to overheat them. So you are earning crypto currency of some type. So we initially invested 2k for the computers and my son more. Eventually the computers become outdated and won't earn $ so he sells them. The newer miners you can buy. It is work on his part because the miners go down and you have to restart them, etc. He has also traded coins from one type to another to make a profit. You also have to keep track of what is occurring in the Bitcoin world to keep your profits safe before you cash out. Some friends of ours lost their profits when they did not move them into a secure wallet like my son kept telling them to do. Basically my son handles everything and gives us a report showing our earnings, etc. In the past 4 years my son and his wife have earned after expenses 50k and us about 24 K. Right now we each still have 11 coins each and Bitcoin hit 9459 a few days ago. You don't realize profit until you cash out and my husband and son are pretty sure it will go much higher. If it all went away tomorrow we are still ahead of the game. Obviously you need the understanding and skills to make this work which I don't have.
I have a lot to learn about this. My SIL has a massive computer and a server of his own in the basement and I suspect he is doing a bit of mining himself. But I have to ask, being the cynic that I so proudly proclaim....what does one do to “earn” profits. When someone loses their investment...does that mean people like you can profit? I have an understanding of fraud as it relates to the financial world.....bitcoin is lost on me though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Our friends were holding their bitcoin in a wallet that was secure at one time but something happened and it wasn't. My son had read about it and notified them repeatedly by email and called them. It just disappears because it is crypto currency and I don't think anyone else profited. You earn $ by solving the algorithms is my understanding. Originally 6 families went in on this venture and my son took a small percentage for managing everything. Everyone made $. Then 1 set of friends wanted their profits to manage themselves. My son knew what was coming because he stays on top of things and moved everyone's profits but they ignored his warnings. You can't be successful at this unless you understand it and keep up with what is happening all the time.
Terry, I am more confused than before--are you saying you have computers running all the time, solving algorithms? Why does that result in gaining bitcoins? What is a wallet?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Yes we have 9 miners (computers) running 24-7 for the past 4 years. You are being paid to solve the problems. The more difficult the problem you get more $. It also depends on how many people are mining. The less competition the more $. There are many places where you hold your coins until you sell. A wallet is one of those. Unless you cash it out you have to hold it somewhere virtual. My son has all the information with passwords etc in our safe so if he dies we can get the $ for his wife and us. If him and my DH both die at the same time my DIL and I are in trouble. Although my stepson being an IT guy would rescue us:))
Im going to make this a comment and not a question so you don’t feel obliged to answer and I don’t want to sound accusatory or a little too nebnosy......is that a word...anyway you know my intentions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
The obvious question is ....doesn’t this unsecured crypto currency give you a little of the heebeegeebees. And it would seem vague guidance from the IRS could be a bit of a
landmine. But hey, I know nothing....I’m still saving change in a Pooh Bear.
The underlying scheme of the current bitcoin technology is a bit silly if you think about how it scales. Fine in a lab or for initial adopters, a bit non-eco if it wants to be a generally-useful currency:
https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/pol...to-run-bitcoin
Okay, I looked at the spectrum article, and now I really am more confused and a little repelled--it reminds me of The Matrix. It seems very far removed from activities that help mankind, but I guess the same could be said of a lot of financial markets.
Terry, you must have a really really high electric bill. Or maybe not. I am not sure how much our computers draw, and we use them all day, too, but not 24/7.
WS; here is the thing. We could have cashed out at almost 10k/coin and had a 100k guaranteed. WE are speculating that it will go higher. That is one reason we have been taking some of our profits so in case it all goes to crap we have some of the $ we made. When you cash it out $ appears in your banking account and yes you have to pay taxes on it. When we first started we were fine with losing our initial 2k that we invested.
Yes our electric bill ranges between 300-500 /month for the miners. We pay for this with our profits. When the miners quit being profitable we sell them off. My son thinks there will come a time not that far off that it won't be profitable for small time miners like us to do it.
So, by “mining”, you are burning through power (which causes ecological consequences) to create virtual currency.
This is why I don’t worry about my own carbon contribution to our planet, frankly.
Would that be Schedule SE reportable income, or some kind of capital gain?Quote:
Originally Posted by Williamsmith
WE have someone do our taxes so I can't answer that question but both we and my son report it on our taxes. The last thing we want is to have a problem with the IRS.
I'm sure they have a protocol for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Are you ever tempted to just get out completely with all that profit? That is a lot of money!
I teach online, and some days I feel like I'm in the matrix, too. . .
Me yes but DH and son say no. That is precisely why we are taking the middle ground to cash out some as we go. I love teaching online. It has been the funnest thing I have ever done for work. Jan will be 5 years for me. They used to ask me every semester if I was going to teach the next one. I finally said you will have to pry it out of my cold dead hands. So they quit asking. Also this past summer was the first time I taught in summer so now I do all 3 semesters but each one is only 11 weeks long.
Haha, that's the way I feel about my one college--the other one is a little less fun, but I value both jobs. I teach all year round, every day. I've been doing it since 2004.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
You work a lot more then me. I teach the same course each semester for one college. That is enough for me.
Why couldn’t I teach an online criminal justice class?
Do you have a masters degree in criminal justice, William? That is required in many places.
If you do, then you should definitely apply!
I have a B.S. in Environmental Resource Management and 25 years of work experience in law enforcement......So I’m qualified to noodle around on the guitar, sip bourbon by the fire and watch Vanna White turn letters for $4million a year. But thanks for your vote of confidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
Personally I think they should have given Vanna a paycut when technology enabled her to simply touch the panels instead of having to actually turn them around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Williamsmith
Oh, I thought you were asking what was required in the places I teach--my bad, I thought you wanted to teach online.Quote:
Originally Posted by Williamsmith
I only know about the places I have taught-- if you wanted to teach, you would definitely ask around and see what was required.
It’d be hilarious if we manage to accelerate global warming by mining virtual currency....
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ricity-ireland
“each individual bitcoin transaction uses almost 300KWh of electricity” - so now I’m feeling a bit guilty about the $300 in Bitcoin I sent to some guy in Europe for payment for a hand-forged axe.
Thank you for the link. I followed it to an explanation of the whole bitcoin phenomenon. Very helpful. I did not realize all this computing is simply a competition to see who/what computer can solve a random algorithm problem simply to claim the next release of crypto currency generated. And I didn’t realize that the currency is finite and someday will expire. A virtual digital gold.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
It would seem to me to be a wonderful opportunity for cybercrime, or economic sanction avoidance or spy networking. Imagine all the coal that is being burned in electrical grid production in the world, just for a chance to claim the next ten minutes of bitcoin.
Im supposed to feel guilty about my contribution to global warming?
I see that the Chicago Merch and the CBOE are authorized to start bitcoin futures trading later this month.
Jack Bogle also issued a warning about Bitcoin within the last few days.
So it must be going more mainstream.