Adjuncts should be paid more. Some unionize and do get better pay and benefits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
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Adjuncts should be paid more. Some unionize and do get better pay and benefits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Jeppy (and maybe Teacher Terry), here is my question for you. What kind of punishment would I have to endure to satisfy you all?
Here is one possible scenario:
I could opt-out of the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Plan and the Income-based Repayment. This would make my monthly payment go from about $250 to roughly $1,600 a month. After taxes and deductions I take home about $3,200 a month (give or take). So I could pay the $1,600 loan payment each month. But how would I live on $1,600 a month? And my loan would probably never get paid down because of compounding interest (I owe about $170,000). So I would have to pay $1,600 until I die. And if I could live on the $1,600 a month left after my loan payment I could not save for retirement. I'd literally work until I die and live on the very verge of financial collapse if something went wrong or there was an accident. Life would get more and more risky as I got older. My life would be toil and joylessness. I could never buy a house. I could not help family members if they needed it. I could never buy another car, and I would probably have to sell the one I have at some point to cover an emergency. I would have to give up my dog (I think Jeppy suggested this before), maybe give him away or have him euthanized if I could not re-home him.
So Jeppy, Teacher Terry, if I went this route, would that satisfy your punitive inclinations? I ask seriously.
High administrative costs drive up the price of college. So colleges hire fundraisers to get money for scholarships. Of course those fundraisers cost money, further driving up tuition and fees, necessitating more scholarships. It is great for the administrators and terrible for the students with tuition inflation well above normal inflation rates and with no end in sight.
What makes you an expert in the field of higher education budgets and university fundraising? I ask because it is blatantly obvious you have no clue what you are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
It is not a punishment. It is the consequences of your choices. If this program did not exist would you claim you are being punished?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight
Get roommates or get a second or third job.
There are many, many people whose sole source of retirement income is Social Security.
It is sad if money is your only source of joy.
You feel as a college educated person you are entitled to a certain lifestyle now and in retirement. If you were doing it on your own fine, but you are not entitled to live above your means with subsidies from people less fortunate than you. Only a narcissist would have the entitlement mentality you have.
Jeppy, there is something very personal in your dislike of me. Others on here have alluded to it in their posts from time to time.
I think maybe you have some regrets or resentment in your life and it made you petty, bitter inside. And for this reason you need to lash out at someone. That someone seems to be me.
Your behavior is kind of obsessive and creepy in its own way.
Don't post questions asking for feedback, and promising not to criticize it, if you can't handle the answers.
I see you called me names instead of responding to my points on supposed punishment, living within a budget, retirement savings and sources of joy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight
So let me change my wording. Would the "consequences" I outlined above be enough to satisfy you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Do you think that people who use tobacco or alcohol and then suffer illnesses from those habits should be refused healthcare? Like for lung cancer for instance? Do you think that people who have kids they cannot afford should face the consequences of their actions and they should have their kids become wards of the state or some such? How consistent are you in this principle of yours that people should pay the consequences of their actions in full?
For life? I would already have to do that if I chose the aforementioned scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
That is a horrible fate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
You are the one who is so bitter about me making more money than you (and being more successful in every way with my life). You are the one obsessed with having to "pay" for my "jetset lifestyle." You seem to be the one fixated on money. And it has turned you into a rather bitter person, judging by your twisted obsession with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
LMAO!Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
You keep telling me how I feel.
I am handling the answers. LOL. In fact, I am trouncing you in this argument and it stings, doesn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Did I call you names or did I apply adjectives to your behavior?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Teacher Terry seems happy with her life and I am happy with mine.
I have a job I like. There are numerous people in my life who love and value me. I am not desperate for a date as I have many interests in life including in the wonderful local area where I live.
That doesn't mean I like able-bodied adults who mooch off others.
Maybe Teacher Terry is. But you... I doubt that. Otherwise you would not have this creepy obsession with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
How do you feel about it paying so much less than mine, especially since I am much younger and earlier in my career than you? (See how it feels when someone lobs petty, passive-aggressive insults at you? Not fun, right? Maybe time you stop doing it now that you know how it feels.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Doubt it. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Keep telling yourself that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Who are you referring to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
It's just another way of keeping poor people down. I got my 4 year credential almost 30 years ago. In the entire time since then I have had precisely zero potential employer express any interest in it beyond the fact that I have it. No interest in what I studied. No interest in how good or poor my grades were. No interest in what institution it came from, beyond the fact that said institution used to have a kick-ass football program. But that degree has helped me obtain a steadily rising resume of "4 year degree required" jobs that did not utilize any particular aspect of the education I got from that institution.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
Here’s the deal. Many of the items you mentioned to avoid Vietnam are dishonorable. When you are called to service it’s important to serve. Because his draft number made it inevitable he did the best thing he could by joining the marines and going in with a job guarantee so he wasn’t fighting in the jungle. He was repairing aircraft engines and also trained to do AC/heating repair. Still sent there and people were murdered on base and traveling between bases. I have no reason to move as I moved here when things were cheaper and we own our house. I feel sorry for younger people. I think there is a more reasonable payment between what you are paying and that huge payment. However, it’s legal. But there are so many inequalities with rich people getting breaks they don’t deserve. I would never want you to give up Harlan. That’s a tiny expense in the big scheme of things. Yes I think your debt should come before owning a home. I also think kids have no counseling before borrowing such huge amounts of money for degrees that will never pay off. Lenders are to blame also. I am not queen of the world so it doesn’t matter what I think. I just try to live my values. Everyone is different. What is so hard to understand about my HC cost. Based on years of service. Every year past 15 would have made my premium less.
Sounds like a bad deal to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Who defines what honor is? Who believes it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Civil Disobedience (going to Canada) seems fine to me. Being a conscientious objector seems plenty honorable to me.
I remember when I was 12 my dad and I were talking about Vietnam. He was a medic there with the Marines (though he originally joined the Navy). I remember I said: "If there was another war like Vietnam, I would go to Canada."
He flipped out on me! He was very angry. But I stood up for my beliefs. Now, when I was actually military age my beliefs were more that I would just go to jail, like: "I am opposed to unjust wars and I will not take part. Go ahead and prosecute me. I will go to jail."
To me, that feels much more honorable than engaging in an unjust war.
Is it? Lots of cops in Alabama got called to serve in the 1960s. They put attack dogs and fire hoses on children. But it is important that they served when called by Bull Connor, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
That may have been the best thing he thought to do. But again, he probably would have had a lot more fun in Montreal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
My dad joined the Navy when he was 17 in 1964. From 65-66 he volunteered to go to Vietnam, though he could have just stayed on a boat and gone to Japan again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
I feel my father made the wrong choice.
Murdered by whom?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Wait, so you moved to a place that was affordable? Thanks for proving my earlier points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
So long as they are not in the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, right? Those PSLF younger people have no integrity and were raised by bad parents. Gotcha!Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
There is. It would be to stay on the Income Based Repayment plan (my payments are about $225 a month). But here is the thing. I could pay this until I was 200+ years old and never pay the debt off. Compound interest would mean I stay in debt until I die. Then I would be a dead moocher for eternity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
But here is the catch. For everyone who has government student loans the longest they can pay is 25 years. So everyone becomes a freeloading mooch if they cannot pay off their debt in 25 years.
Legal does not make something right or wrong. Transporting slaves on the underground railroad was illegal. Segregation was legal. You do the math.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Yeah, which is exactly why you should be so darned upset about people on the Public Service Loan Forgiveness plan. They are horrible beyond description.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Thanks. You love dogs too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Tell that to your best friend Jeppy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
I have almost zero interest in buying a house.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
I was one of those kids who had no counseling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
I think you are walking back some of your earlier statements because I called you out for sounding downright anti-social work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
I just try to live my values. Everyone is different. Uh... yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Murdered by the Vietnam people. The soldiers always only half slept. My husband said that the people on base that were working were killing people at night. When we married he warned me to wake him up from nightmares at a distance. He is 73 and still has issues. It would certainly be your right to be a objector. Seriously I try not to focus on the injustices of the world. Plus we all have our own world view. I admire your dedication to your dog and I would live in my car before I would desert my babies. I hate it when people act like animals are disposable. I have people that will take ours if we both die. It’s one reason we have downsized from 4 to 2 by natural attrition. You could comfortably pay 500/month. Doing the math this would come closer to paying off your debt. But again it’s a individual decision.
Looking back at my dad's life I can remember having a discussion with him that is somewhat related. He had been drafted during the Korean war. He ended up going to Germany as part of the "peace-keeping force" No serious risk to his life, other than sleeping in a tent for 15 months in Germany's climate. He came back to the US after and applied to the post office to be a rural mail carrier. He was granted extra points on the civil service test because he was a veteran. Eventually he was offered a job by the post office but by then he had made other life plans so he (thankfully in my opinion) didn't take the rural carrier job. I was a teen when he told me this and I asked "why should you have gotten extra points?" His response: "because I served my country when they needed me."
For better or for worse congress decided that we needed to incentivize people to work in certain areas and offered student loan forgiveness as that incentive. Ultralight is taking advantage of that legal incentive. I don't see how it's any different than the incentive offered to my father when he got done serving in a non-war-zone in 1952.
Everyone in my family served in WW 2. My dad was in Europe. We Anything that they receive they deserved. Tomorrow I am going to a funeral for my BF’s dad that at 19 was trapped behind enemy lines in Korea because he was sent up a mountain to repair a communications line and left behind when they encountered fire. He survived by putting on a Korean soldiers uniform and marching with them at night and falling out of line in the morning. He was small and the koreans never looked each other in the eye. He had a 80% disability and still worked his entire life. Yes we are taking advantage of free burial for my husband in a veterans cemetery and paying 400 for me. Veterans earned it. They deserve to be hired first for government jobs.
And honestly, there are all sorts of things in life that just aren't fair. Thinking more about my father, he retired in 1992 with approximately $200,000 in assets invested in the stock market. He never touched those assets again for the rest of his life. He died 25 years later and they were valued at roughly $700,000. Thanks to the US tax code my sister and I paid $0 tax on that capital gain. Multiply that out over the top 0.1%'s various death capital gains resets and now you might start to figure out who you need to be angry at. And it ain't Ultralight.
So you want us to be angry at you? That is a heck of an inheritance.Quote:
He never touched those assets again for the rest of his life. He died 25 years later and they were valued at roughly $700,000. Thanks to the US tax code my sister and I paid $0 tax on that capital gain. Multiply that out over the top 0.1%'s various death capital gains resets and now you might start to figure out who you need to be angry at. And it ain't Ultralight.
With his family connections Al Gore could have gotten out of going to Vietnam, but he went because if he didn't someone else from his small town in Tennessee would have been drafted to go instead. He is honorable.
There are many dishonorable people not just UL. For instance, I see able-bodied panhandlers in my city although there is a labor shortage in the area. They like to mooch off others.
I don't think it is considered murder during war. In war the opposing countries' soldiers kill each other. Those are not considered murders, they are considered casualties.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
And "the Vietnam people" are called Vietnamese.
Is that dishonorable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Then talk to your best friend Jeppy about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
I wish my parents would think about this issue. I worry for their dogs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
What?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
So you are saying Gore literally saved someone else from being drafted by volunteering for the military? What is the name of the man Gore saved?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Do you even know how conscription worked during the Vietnam Era?
There are lots of internet bullies who have creepy obsessions with people, not just Yppej.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Yeah. If someone is going to be angry at ultralight for taking advantage of the student loan forgiveness program they should be angry at me and my sister for getting a $75k tax break just for being born to the right parent.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
If you find the step-up in basis on inherited securities to be ethically problematic, you can always send the Treasury Department a check.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
I suppose at minimum it establishes the holder showed up for classes and was able to please professors to the extent that they granted him a degree. I would suspect there are more efficient ways to document a person’s ability to show up and perform basic tasks, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
and the job market in it's infinite wisdom (ha), is not much interested in those other ways, however efficient they may be. And are they really efficient? I mean the degree thing is as lazy as you can get for an employer, it's pre-screening based on a check box (actual screening is the interview process etc.). If you are making an argument it's not efficient for the job seeker to get education that is many cases ends up not even applying to the work they actually end up doing, well ok but that probably doesn't matter. It is as low effort as possible for the companies looking for employees and that's what matters. So job seekers live in the real world and act accordingly, chase after the degree or even advanced degrees etc.Quote:
I suppose at minimum it establishes the holder showed up for classes and was able to please professors to the extent that they granted him a degree. I would suspect there are more efficient ways to document a person’s ability to show up and perform basic tasks, however.
Seeing employers as basically "lazy" (or seeking the least effort possible) when seeking an employee is probably a pretty accurate and useful way to view the job market (such might be human nature but truthfully they are busy and finding an ideal employee isn't their main task either). Not that it provides the magic solution if caught in non-fruitful job hunting, nah there often is no such thing, just keep keeping on but ...
I feel there is such a stigma against people who are not college educated. I remember when my high-school drop-out son became a teaching golf pro and followed the sun all year working hard from sunup to sundown teaching the college-educated folk how to play golf.
I ran into one of his elementary-school friends in the supermarket during that time and she asked me how he was doing. I told her, with pride, that he was a PGA teaching pro teaching golf in Vermont, Florida, and Arizona, and she went "Meh. I guess it's better than working at McDonalds." He subsequently wound up getting a job at Rutgers so he could get tuition remission and go to Rutgers Law School, and he worked at his job during the day and went to school nights and weekends, and graduated with a law degree with no debt.
I have another son with no debt who decided not to go to college at all. He serves tables so he can live out his passion as a singer/songwriter. But he is so self-conscious when people ask him what he does, and he is sure his lack of college degree is why he has been "between girlfriends" for a while now. Yet, today, his boss sent him a review on the restaurant he works in where the reviewer gave the restaurant 5 stars and called out my son's service specifically as being a reason for the high rating.
I LOVE an MLK quote that speaks to the honor in any work, and I've taught this to my kids:
"Whatever your life’s work is, do it well. Even if it does not fall in the category of one of the so-called big professions, do it well. As one college president said, 'A man should do his job so well that the living, the dead, and the unborn could do it no better.' If it falls your lot to be a street sweeper, sweep streets like Michelangelo painted pictures, like Shakespeare wrote poetry, like Beethoven composed music; sweep streets so well that all the hosts of Heaven and earth will have to pause and say, 'Here lived a great street sweeper, who swept his job well.'”
This feels off-topic, but it speaks to the issues around education supporting (or not supporting) a life well lived.
There sure is a lot of snarkiness in this thread. Why can't people simply be grateful for the benefits each of us has received that the rest of the world is striving to obtain? I have been really poor and hungry at times, and, struggling with challenges but was glad to be alive and overcoming them, albeit gradually. Now I am more secure and comfortable but have the same sense of gratitude. Just don't understand the snarkiness.
In terms of the working world, I don’t know what the good alternatives might be. Some professions like law and public accounting require exams and continuing education. The IT industry has many different certifications with differing levels of acceptance.
I don’t know if AI will make things better or worse. Making people take job entrance exams will probably create a lot of questions about the tests fairness and cultural biases.
I think to a large degree we use degrees as a sort of status signal. I’m thinking of those stickers people like to put in the rear windows of their cars to advertise their college affiliation.
It's interesting. After all those years where employers wanted to know that I had a degree before they would even discuss a job opportunity with me my current boss never asked or cared during the interview process. He was only concerned with what skills and accomplishments I had from my last job. We had several conversations about my thoughts and opinions relating to the job at hand and how I would handle various different account issues that are likely to come up in the day to day work activities and my responses revolved around real examples from my last job. It was only after I'd been offered the job that HR got involved, asked for a copy of my resume and went about verifying that the 4 year university credential on my resume was one that I'd actually obtained. But I couldn't have gotten the previous job which gave me the relevant experience for my current job without the degree, despite the degree having nothing to do with the work at hand at that job or the current one.
I have a college degree and a DD 214. Guess which one provided me the greatest value.
I only put in seven years, so my DD214 gets me half off on a pizza every Veterans Day and a flag for my coffin. Of course, I couldn’t have gotten a commission without the degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
As to potential employers, maybe 60% viewed being a USAF officer as a positive and 40% saw it as a delay to the start of my “real” career. Some few seemed to have a visceral contempt for all things military, but that seems to have declined over time.
That wasn't my point. My point was that if Jeppy wants to be angry about government giveaways there are plenty of more worthy causes than the student loan forgiveness program, which at least has reasonable intentions behind it. Me getting a big tax break because I won the birth lotto probably doesn't benefit society nearly as much as student loan forgiveness.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
If you worked for the government, both. You get more for pension as military service counts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
In my case, the state pension plan didn’t count military service, but did allow me to buy those seven years at the current value of what contributions plus investment earnings would have been. Whether that turns out to be a good deal will depend on how long my wife and I live.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
Ul, my last comment on the Vietnam war. It’s called murder because they weren’t killed by soldiers. They were murdered on their own base by civilians that they employed to work on the base. Try and go 13 months only half sleeping.
I think that is called guerrilla warfare. That was what Vietnam was. Were they Civilians or were they Viet Cong? Also, if those attacks were so rampant that no one on base could sleep, then why would the US Military continue to employ them? This story of yours is fishy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
Be careful. Seriously. Jeppy could develop a creepy obsession with you too.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1