Conavirus......

In latin America the latest seems a be a lot of 20-40 year olds are dying.

Yea too much is unknown, it's not actually known, pushing a study here or there out of all context to prove this or that (or if you are a website for the clicks because I saw that clickbait article too, and it is what info it is. But in my opinion doesn't jibe with much else that we also seem to have data on, like antibody tests not showing much infection compared to death numbers in many countries.), is again just the fundamentally intellectually dishonest arguments all the time.

More unintended consequences - there is an uptick in murders on Boston. People feel with the courts closed nothing will happen to them, and some prisoners are being released early to try to avoid outbreaks in correctional facilities. I wonder too if people don't have other things to do so they get into fights.

Washington just announced that 50% of new cases are in people under 40.

Jane, I guess that will dispel it’s a old person’s disease myth.

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Originally Posted by Teacher Terry

Jane, I guess that will dispel it’s a old person’s disease myth.

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The really old are just more likely to die. I'm still mystified by the dichotomy of outcomes of infection.

Waupon Correctional Facility has been testing their 1,181 inmates and 319 staff. The results summarized for about half the tests have been reported in the news. 217 positive, (close to 30% positive)... mostly asymptomatic.

I have a hunch that other correctional facilities must be testing, but I don't recall seeing results, except for Waupon.

I keep hearing more stories of the negative effects of shutdowns from increases in child abuse to greater self-reported substance abuse among college students. I continue to think isolating high risk groups makes more sense than making everyone stay home. It's not just an economic gut punch.

I have been thinking that it is unnatural for people to stay in a state of hypervigilance, am I touching my face? Is that person 5 not 6 feet from me? Is my cough a dry cough or a wet cough? People need the opportunity to relax and enjoy life. The flight part of fight or flight - flight from others, social situations, or even one's own face - is a stress response and is not sustainable.

The thing I am confused about is we read that cases are increasing here or there. Does that mean people are actually getting sick or does it mean they just did more tests on asymptomatic people? I went to a local nursery yesterday with mostly older customers milling about. No one was wearing a mask. I felt silly wearing one...

Generally!! it means that people are getting some kind of symptoms that prompts them to get tested or they go into hospital where it is required.

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Originally Posted by pinkytoe

The thing I am confused about is we read that cases are increasing here or there. Does that mean people are actually getting sick or does it mean they just did more tests on asymptomatic people? I went to a local nursery yesterday with mostly older customers milling about. No one was wearing a mask. I felt silly wearing one...

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IL has now opened up testing free to anyone in the state, with or without symptoms, no doctor’s order required. We’re still seeing a lot of cases, but it’s because so many people are getting tested. State test positivity rate is about 5% as of yesterday.

Most people here are wearing masks in stores and many require it. Our infection rate is so low we are comfortable going out to eat since waiters are all masked and we see them washing tables and chairs between guests. We prefer to eat outside but that’s always been true. Asians are used to it because of the air quality. Somehow they have adjusted to wearing masks with no issues in countries that are very hot and humid.

Yppej, I agree that the behaviors we are being asked to apply to avoid the spread of illness are unnatural. What us natural is for a new pathogen to emerge, kill off the portion of the population that is insufficiently resistant and persist in the portion that has enough resistance to survive long enough to spread it while maintaining an adequate population to provide hosts.

that is why we invented medicine. From an individual viewpoint, nature sucks.

I was watching TV news at four a.m. (don't ask...:~)) featuring a physician named Leana Wen (currently a visiting professor at George Washington University) , who asserted that if everyone wore masks, the incidence of COVID transmission could be cut by 50 to 90 percent. I've noted lots of similar reports lately.

I caved yesterday to social un- isolation and had a breakfast party on my patio for five friends. We made an effort to stay 6 feet apart, but we did not mask. They serve themselvesfood in my house and then sat outside it was a beautiful morning.Later in the day I paid $250 to visit the latest Frank Loyd Wright houseUp for renovation. It was a fundraiser. Everyone was required to wear masks sitting inside so we did, and there was a fair amount of social distancing involved, but it was a group of about a dozen people and yeah we ended up passing close by in those narrow Wright hallways that were less than 3 feet wide.

Our county where Herman is located has had four total diagnosed cases of COVID-19. Four. Zero deaths. They Have a good testing facilities although apparently few people are taking advantage of them and they’ve already moved the testing from the clinic location to the local hospital.


I’m planning Overnight trip today to Galena, Illinois where the county has 33 reported cases of COVID-19. That is higher than my Hermann County ( Gasconade.) But still not bad.

Galena is a great little town. I love frank Wright Lloyd homes.

We seem to have about 250 new diagnosed cases a day, here. Mostly in the county where I live.

Well that's because Galena is second home territory for chicago, Iris. Great town, by the way!

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Originally Posted by Tybee

Well that's because Galena is second home territory for chicago, Iris. Great town, by the way!

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Actually, I think NW Indiana and SW Michigan are more secondary territory for Chicago area folks.

I was diving off a charter boat yesterday that goes out of the Hammond, IN marina. Just across the border from Chicago. The marina was jammed. Not an empty slip in sight. Chicago's marinas are still closed and you can't even launch a boat for day use out of a Chicago boat ramp. So people from Chicago/IL are coming to Indiana. The boat captain said the Hammond marina has a massive waiting list. I saw more IL license plates in the parking lot than I did IN. Usually it's more IN plates.

DW and I had an excellent time visiting Galena. I'd go again if there weren't so many other towns we've yet to visit.

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Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

Ithe incidence of COVID transmission could be cut by 50 to 90 percent. I've noted lots of similar reports lately.

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Or if sick people stayed home that would do it perthis WHO news:

https://thehill.com/homenews/coronav...irus-very-rare

I would agree to a mask mandate in doctor's offices, hospitals, and other places where people are sick.

We are likely to have a vaccine before we have decent sick leave policy in this country, yes even if vaccine takes 2 years or more, ha even if it takes 10 with the existing cast of useless people from both parties in office (I can't believe how badly they failed to get this).

So wear a mask already. We don't have universal sick leave, so even if we were certain there was no asymptomatic transmission, we need universal mask wearing.

Hopefully people won't throw their masks away just yet. From the article:

However, Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, expressed some skepticism of the WHO’s claim and said he thinks asymptomatic transmission is, in fact, an important source of spread and that some modeling shows as much as 40 to 60 percent of transmission is from people without symptoms.

Jha said it’s possible the WHO is making a distinction between asymptomatic spread and presymptomatic spread, when someone eventually develops symptoms but spreads the virus before they do.

There's so much no one knows about this virus--like whether or not it lingers and causes more troublesome sequelae down the line. Possible outcomes apparently include neurological impairment as well as renal failure, clotting problems and Kawasaki-like syndrome.

The dictator of my state wants to spend $374 million to increase testing capacity, but demand for testing has been falling and we have more capacity than we need. People don't want the tests, and they can't get the antibody tests they do want covered by insurance. The law only mandates free - aka no out of pocket cost - conventional tests. He is so out of touch and is wasting taxpayer money.

So you’re In favor of the government testing for antibodies? Or you’re in favor of people jamming their heads in a hole in the ground? Arizona is having an exploding level of cases. You previously said that brazil had increases because of the cold weather. I guess AZ is entering cold weather season. Either that or you are a stupid idiot.

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Originally Posted by Yppej

My point was that as Brazil moves into their cooler season cases are rising not that Brazil is a success.

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Apparently Arizona must be heading into cooler season too since their cases are rising pretty dramatically. I suppose it could also be a case of "this disease doesn't give a **** what the weather is. It only cares who doesn't bother to wear a damn mask."

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So you’re In favor of the government testing for antibodies? Or you’re in favor of people jamming their heads in a hole in the ground? Arizona is having an exploding level of cases. You previously said that brazil had increases because of the cold weather. I guess AZ is entering cold weather season.

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Truthfully a lot of places might be headed for ICU overload, but very little is hitting the national news I suspect. AZ yes, but here in So Cal we may be 2-4 weeks away from ICUs maybe becoming overloaded as well, or so the health authorities say. Maybe if happens, maybe not, I mean noone has a crystal ball. But they are telling us it might happen. Yes a lot is open, no I'm not putting myself out there to go the mall (to buy things I don't need, to impress people I don't like), or eat at a restaurant etc., cases are increasing.

The hot weather thing, no, I mean maybe there is some effect of UV etc. but outdoors doesn't seem a huge source of transmission anyway. Maybe it slows transmission some, but clearly it was unlikely to ever be a major much less sufficient factor as places with plenty of hot weather were getting hit hard all along.

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Originally Posted by jp1

So you’re In favor of the government testing for antibodies? Or you’re in favor of people jamming their heads in a hole in the ground? Arizona is having an exploding level of cases. You previously said that brazil had increases because of the cold weather. I guess AZ is entering cold weather season. Either that or you are a stupid idiot.

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I am in favor of the mandate that insurers cover testing be expanded to include antibody testing. Many people I know would like this test. The latest research indicates antibodies are protective against the disease. You can then 1) locate more plasma donors and 2) know who to focus conventional testing efforts on, rather than repeatedly testing people not at risk.

Previously you apologized for your tone but I see that was insincere as you are now calling me a stupid idiot. The moderators here are not doing there job of enforcing forum etiquette so I am adding you to my ignore list and this is the last post of yours I will respond to.

My parents, 79 and 81, are now scheduled for haircuts. Their hairdresser is even older than them. But hey they'll be wearing masks....

Meanwhile I am planning a contactless Father's Day with my dad in an outdoor arboretum. I hope it is not the last one I celebrate with him. We will go in separate cars and stay 6+ feet apart although communication is difficult at that distance since he is hard of hearing despite double hearing aids.

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Originally Posted by jp1

So you’re In favor of the government testing for antibodies? Or you’re in favor of people jamming their heads in a hole in the ground? Arizona is having an exploding level of cases. You previously said that brazil had increases because of the cold weather. I guess AZ is entering cold weather season. Either that or you are a stupid idiot.

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jp, really. “ stupid idiot.”

tsk tsk tsk.

Regardless of any rules imposed anywhere by anyone, for me, it comes down to a simple choice - since I care about myself AND others, I wear a mask; if I didn't care about myself or others, I wouldn't wear a mask.

For me, it's NOT a difficult choice to make - I wear a mask.

Noone should cover antibody tests at all until they can get ones that are largely reliable, there have been so many problems with antibody tests, that while reliable antibody tests are possible, it's not like it's a problem that's science and regulation CAN'T solve, if they don't first work out the reliability issue they are next to garbage and should not be covered by anyone. Why should insurers or the government waste their money on bad tests? Anymore than condoms with holes should be covered, or bleach should be free so people can drink it. Then there is the issue that noone really knows what follows from antibodies.

Then when the antibody tests are reliable they will probably find out most places 2% or 3% of the population actually has antibodies (since that's what the research seems to show). More in NYC. And one might one wonder why catering to this 2% should be a funding priority (tests should be reliable and available, but best use of public money, I don't know about that. Live coronavirus tests are available specifically with a public health goal: to limit spread).

This is an outstanding article on masks and computer models: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...jvK9HyLAV4ZjtE

"On the screen-share, De Kai first ran a simulation that shows what happens when COVID-19 strikes a population in which no one wears a mask. The orange and red dots proliferate at a frightening speed; “susceptibles” becoming “exposed/infected,” then recovered or dead. “This is what you don’t want,” said De Kai. He changed the setting to simulate what would happen if 100% of the make-believe population wore masks; almost all of the dots would stay blue—with each of them surrounded by a white square, representing someone wearing a mask."

It’s a easy choice to wear a mask. As a society we each have a responsibility to protect others because everyone benefits.

Speaks for itself:

Attachment 3261

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Originally Posted by JaneV2.0

This is an outstanding article on masks and computer models: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...jvK9HyLAV4ZjtE

"On the screen-share, De Kai first ran a simulation that shows what happens when COVID-19 strikes a population in which no one wears a mask. The orange and red dots proliferate at a frightening speed; “susceptibles” becoming “exposed/infected,” then recovered or dead. “This is what you don’t want,” said De Kai. He changed the setting to simulate what would happen if 100% of the make-believe population wore masks; almost all of the dots would stay blue—with each of them surrounded by a white square, representing someone wearing a mask."

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So why aren't we opening everything, full steam ahead, just put on a mask and hop on a fully loaded airplane, no capacity limits at Disney, fill the sports stadiums and concert halls. Yippee!

Just curious if anyone here personally knows someone who has had or has the virus? The closest I have come is a neighbor who had to quarantine after her boss came down with some mild symptoms and tested positive. I remain very confused by all the varying reports but find it interesting that the day after George Floyd is buried, the headlines go right back to reporting scary virus surges.

Luckily I don’t know anyone.

No the closest I come is a college classmate of my bf died, in his early 40s.