Recovering hoarders?

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

i do enjoy spending time with my stuff when I am recovering from people though. The stuff is so quiet and still and demands so little of me.

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This is a really interesting perspective. I feel the complete opposite - extra stuff makes me feel suffocated and stressed out. The stuff feels heavy and demanding to me; demanding of time, mental and physical energy, physical and visual space so that the room feels like it's closing in on me, etc... When I'm faced with extra stuff I feel as if I'm carrying it physically and emotionally. And the burden feels too heavy and draining.

I'm an ENFP which is the most introverted of the extroverts and I do have a need for alone time and usually what makes me happy is gardening or being with my pets, listing to a relaxing tape, etc. I find those experiences refreshing and soothing in the way that you describe being with your things.

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Originally Posted by Geila

I feel the complete opposite - extra stuff makes me feel suffocated and stressed out. The stuff feels heavy and demanding to me; demanding of time, mental and physical energy, physical and visual space so that the room feels like it's closing in on me, etc... When I'm faced with extra stuff I feel as if I'm carrying it physically and emotionally. And the burden feels too heavy and draining.

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Amen!

It might be some kind of nesting impulse. Most men probably wouldn't get it :). But really I suspect it may be a bit of a feminine trait. It's a desire for one's house (or apartment or condo or whatever) to be solace and hiding from what seems a very dangerous and uncertain world (that one must otherwise interact with and sometimes a great deal). And so there is an impulse for it to be nice and filled with nice comforting things.

Now I also have an impulse not to have things, but that is mostly for one reason: because it's easier to move that way and ugh I'm always thinking about moving all the time. So these impulses might counterbalance a lot.

I like outside but that's not always available, work hours too long on workdays, can just walk around the block but have to drive to really get any where more interesting to walk etc..

UA, I think I would reach a point where I said "enough". It would just be well outside of normal. Right now my "stuff" problem (my personal stuff problem, not my social/family stuff problem) is lack of space - either appropriate storage space or the ability to use the space I have. Dh likes his space to be full of air. (We've had this conversation - me: "but you aren't using this half of the shelf." Him: "I'm using it to store air. You like to be surrounded by things, I like to be surrounded by air.")

for example, dh doesn't mind if I put one doll and two pillows on the guest bed when we do not have a guest. I would prefer 5 pillows of different sizes, three dolls, and a quilt folded at the foot with a stuffed animal on it. Then I would sit cross legged in the middle with papers and books and magazines spread around me and write lesson plans. Also I would need colored pencils. And index cards, and paper clips, and some examples, and I would need to be able to see all of these things. And I would need to leave them there when I left and not have anybody clean them up so that I could pick up my train of thought where I left off when I came back - a day, or a week, or a month, or six months later.

you know Sherlock Holmes' "mind palace"? I build mine around me.

Right now I am choosing to sit not at the nice clean dining table on the nice clean porch, but in the middle of the unmade bed in the messiest room of the house, surrounded by baskets of laundry. It feels cozy.

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Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

It might be some kind of nesting impulse. Most men probably wouldn't get it :). But really I suspect it may be a bit of a feminine trait. It's a desire for one's house (or apartment or condo or whatever) to be solace and hiding from what seems a very dangerous and uncertain world (that one must otherwise interact with and sometimes a great deal). And so there is an impulse for it to be nice and filled with nice comforting things.

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I like my space at home, my apartment, to be a space of solace too. Absolutely! That is why I like it uncluttered and have a zero clutter policy. haha

The things I do have are comforting. I like lounging. haha
Lounging around is something I often do at home, in solace, with my pup. Just kick back on a bean bag chair, stare into space, and relax.

But I am indeed interested in this "nesting" impulse. I have heard numerous women talk about it.

ANM, do you ever think of moving to a different part of the country?

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

UA, I think I would reach a point where I said "enough". It would just be well outside of normal. Right now my "stuff" problem (my personal stuff problem, not my social/family stuff problem) is lack of space - either appropriate storage space or the ability to use the space I have. Dh likes his space to be full of air. (We've had this conversation - me: "but you aren't using this half of the shelf." Him: "I'm using it to store air. You like to be surrounded by things, I like to be surrounded by air.")

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You are joking or being sincere? The issue is that you don't have room for your stuff? I can't tell if you are jerking my chain...

Question: Describe to me your "enough" and what sort of facilities you'd need to house your enough-stuff. I am intrigued.

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

for example, dh doesn't mind if I put one doll and two pillows on the guest bed when we do not have a guest. I would prefer 5 pillows of different sizes, three dolls, and a quilt folded at the foot with a stuffed animal on it. Then I would sit cross legged in the middle with papers and books and magazines spread around me and write lesson plans. Also I would need colored pencils. And index cards, and paper clips, and some examples, and I would need to be able to see all of these things. And I would need to leave them there when I left and not have anybody clean them up so that I could pick up my train of thought where I left off when I came back - a day, or a week, or a month, or six months later.

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Maddening. LOL

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

you know Sherlock Holmes' "mind palace"? I build mine around me.

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Not familiar...

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

Right now I am choosing to sit not at the nice clean dining table on the nice clean porch, but in the middle of the unmade bed in the messiest room of the house, surrounded by baskets of laundry. It feels cozy.

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I don't know how you do it. I really don't.

The mind palace thing would probably be simpler if you googled it. Smithsonian had a good article.

i'm being sincere. For example, I have reached the point where there are very few additional books I wish to own, and sometimes I'm ready to let go of them, so if I had to guess, three more 6 ft tall 3 foot wide bookshelves, and I'd never have another book in a pile. For clothes I would need all of our closet and probably one of the guest room closets - everything would be easy to see and use. Sewing/fiber arts would need a good sized bedroom, although, if I had the space to leave the projects out, I would work on them more often, use up more supplies, and then need less space. when my spinning wheel was actually set up on the porch all summer with bags of alpaca, I made a whole bunch of yarn, because I could just spin for 15 minutes. But dh was annoyed because there was always fuzz everywhere.

once dh told me I could have as many chickens as I wanted. I built extra coops, ordered a bunch of chicks, and I now know, 100 chickens is too many. 45 is about right. I tore down the extra coops and turned the space into goat stalls. If I ever find out how many goats is too many, maybe I'll let you know. But I'm pretty sure milking 6 at a time is plenty! Maybe I could handle 8, but not for too long.

and when I pack stuff neatly away the way dh likes it, I tend to acquire more stuff, but when I have it out where I can see and touch it all the time, I have less interest in more stuff. I think part of the reason the doll collection has gotten so much larger the last year is because dh took the shelf down and the dolls got mostly packed away for months, and my hoarder brain thought I didn't have very many.

so, if I could have my space full of stuff and my stuff out on surfaces/shelves in my space, I would probably reach equillibrium. I would not keep wanting "another room" nor would I build a Collier (sp?) maze. I'm a sentimental/utilitarian/anti waste hoarder who likes living in a bower. (Google also bower bird)

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

i'm being sincere. For example, I have reached the point where there are very few additional books I wish to own, and sometimes I'm ready to let go of them, so if I had to guess, three more 6 ft tall 3 foot wide bookshelves, and I'd never have another book in a pile. For clothes I would need all of our closet and probably one of the guest room closets - everything would be easy to see and use. Sewing/fiber arts would need a good sized bedroom...

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Do you think that if you got all the above space that it would actually be enough?

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

once dh told me I could have as many chickens as I wanted. I built extra coops, ordered a bunch of chicks, and I now know, 100 chickens is too many. 45 is about right. I tore down the extra coops and turned the space into goat stalls. If I ever find out how many goats is too many, maybe I'll let you know. But I'm pretty sure milking 6 at a time is plenty! Maybe I could handle 8, but not for too long.

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I just don't know how you find the time...

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Originally Posted by Chicken lady

...my hoarder brain thought I didn't have very many.

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Could you catch yourself at the impulse and the remind yourself: "Wait, I do have enough." ?

I have to keep most things out where I can see them too. Just sayin'.

What is stopping you from simply building a big pole barn on your land and rooming it off for all that stuff you said you need more space for?

Chicken Lady, it is fascinating to hear you objectively analyze your brain and your surroundings!

I am one of the ones who feels smothered by piles of stuff that simply sit around dong mothng. I had a job at a large public library system where we processed 100,000 books and dvds and music cds etc each year. It was important to keep the assembly line moving to get these purchased materials out on shelves at all of the library locations.

We had hundreds of linear feet on shelves and book trucks in our processing department. I found empty book trucks pleasing, it means we had moved enough product out of our department to free up space, and it also meant we had room to take on a special project. The special projects of many linear feet of materials were dumped in my department periodically.

But I was a bear about accepting more than one special project at a time. The hoarders, and there are many of them in old library systems, apparently loved to see shelves piled high to the ceiling with books and etc even though those materials were not accessible to anyone. Ridiculous. I felt smothered and as through I was sinking underwater when huge collextins of crap sat around.

My department had been in the same place since 1912. We moved out once in the 1990's to renovate the space. My boss and colleagues made sympathetic noises about how much stuff we would have to clean out. i said "no problem! We dont have "stuff" because I dont allow it. We have no hidey holes, no objects that havent been touched for decades, none of that chit, Ive been cleaning cuboards and nooks for years up to now."

You've heard of large libraries that have backlogs measured in years or decades? The U of Illinois was notorious for that, their backlg of unprocessed materials was in the hundreds of ousands of volumes. Yeah, I would have comitted suicide if I had to work there with that hulking, non-moving backlg of books.

Also, please note that I am a recovering hoarder. The recovering part is important. There was a time when the wedding would have overloaded me completely, but now, I can recognize that it is ok to throw away the pieces of fishing line that held the paper lanterns up (waste) keep only the two tiny name flowers from dh and my places, not the styrofoam garden display all the flowers were on at the start of the reception, and not the left behind flowers from other people (sentiment) and only enough table cloths to actually cover the folding tables I currently own, not all of them in case some wear out or get stained (utilitarian)