Mask test:
https://www.boredpanda.com/no-mask-v...afVdOg6ACSfjs0
Not to mention I love the pants on the right side of the page.
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Mask test:
https://www.boredpanda.com/no-mask-v...afVdOg6ACSfjs0
Not to mention I love the pants on the right side of the page.
They are fast approaching the point I suspect here (not necessarily all of Cali) where elective procedures are going to be shut down AGAIN because of overuse of hospital beds (due to elective procedures plus covid).Quote:
Things need to open up. It's like people avoiding hospitals for strokes and heart attacks.
Now we'll see, but I do know this has ALREADY HAPPENED in at least one state (was it AZ or TX I don't know one of them). They again had to shut down elective procedures. Oh blah blah it's just overreaction we'll get, but these are states that didn't even want to shut much down again AT ALL and wanted to open up quickly (as do most really). But .... they are being driven by the virus, by necessity, reality has that little way of interfering. Then you'll see people not treated for strokes and heart attacks when the hospitals get overwhelmed.
But keep twisting that only closing things leads to unnecessarily death not overwhelming the hospital system. Just keep saying that.
As for beaches, they were opened but closed again entirely (not just the bathrooms) for the holidays. Why? Steeply rising covid cases.
I talked to my bf about just taking a long drive somewhere at one point in covid, and we determined that few places might let us use their bathrooms, nor would we feel safe using them! Short drives we take, may not be helping the planet any frankly, but covid safe.
You can get devices that allow women to pee standing up, if you're OK with finding a bush to relieve yourself behind.
Tybee,
I’m pretty sure it has been illegal to use soneone else’s yard as a toilet for a long time. The closed bathrooms are not new laws. They are just closed bathrooms.
so no, my comments weren’t equivalent. But I think equally ridiculous. The problem of people breaking the law being solved not by enforcing the law, but by creating a public health risk as incentive for the lawbreakers to stop.
perhaps a better equivalency would be that we should provide free public accommodations in resort towns to anybody who wants them to keep people from sleeping on the beach. Or free community sex workers - no prophylaxis required, to avoid illegal prostitution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
Quote:
...Or do you just want to bitch about the scientists because "yeah! Scientists suck!"
Sadly, I’m related to a pretty famous scientist so am unable to discount science completely because they will disown me. This video and article about my uncle are going around again on Facebook in my family. I don’t know what prompted it.
But the tl;dr is my brain is probably diminished because I have lead in my system. Where as you, JP, being a good 10 years younger have the advantage of higher IQ because my uncle removed the lead from our environment.
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/...-then-saved-it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QvHQnWFWnIg
I really don't follow what you are saying; although I get you are exaggerating for effect. I think that is a problem, that people are not listening to others but instead going for clever put downs when they express a contradictory opinion. A few unpopular posters express what seem to be way out opinions to the majority, so the majority resorts to name calling, ridicule, and hyperbole. So be it. Even though the unpopular posters are not doing that, just expressing an unpopular opinion. So I hear your put down, and I get it. I expressed my opinion that behavioral laws are always going to be met with resistance, and it is up to those making the laws to figure out how best to get compliance, and that people don't buy in to new behaviors be being shamed and called names. That was my point, and sure, it's an easy one to ridicule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
paying one person to stand at the front of the store is a reason food prices are rising? Any proof?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
if you multiply the wage plus benefits by the twelve or so hours someone is by the front door, then add up every item that was purchased during those hours I can’t imagine it would be much per item, if even a Penny. When I do my grocery pickup I see streams of people coming out with full carts non stop.
https://www.today.com/food/why-are-g...rising-t181700
like all things in our society, prices of food are dependent on our ever complicated supply chain. Not crediting
one minuscule piece of a multi faceted problem to fit your narrative.
If we cannot make accommodations to the elderly or disabled who might take advantage of these hours we have no value as a civil society. At our stores senior hours were not every day, but certain days per week and not the same days at every store. Maybe we will be lucky and Covid-19, the great boomer remover, will cull the herd and those pesky old and disabled people will die. Maybe we can just put old and disabled people to sleep. Way less messy and expensive.
It seems grocery prices have ticked up some, probably partly to cover extra sanitizing and personnel. Seems fair to me.
I just went to the store today and I am starting to see empty shelves again. Was surprised that a lot of the canned goods shelves were empty. I'm starting to think the price increases are due to supply-and-demand, production costs down the line, etc. I don't think we've seen the end of actual food shortages and rising prices yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
I agree! I noticed the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by happystuff
Grocery prices have been going up here for the past year. Our shelves are full. Even when I was young I was all for seniors getting discounts, etc. Senior hours to shop are no different. We don’t use it but I am glad it’s available. People are pretty nice here compared to places like City Data. There’s some real nut jobs there that start amusing conspiracy threads about the virus. It’s funny to read until it sinks in that people really believe that stuff.
It was exasperation. Sarcasm. an attempt to point out that one does not solve a problem by creating more problems. Ridicule and disbelief of the position, not aimed at the person.
But I think perhaps I should go back to salad spinners.
i was raised by someone who treated almost every action by almost any person with “I’m sure they mean well.”
it has taken 52 years, but the last eight weeks have Transformed me from an extreme introvert to an actual misanthrope.
i realized yesterday that I no longer believe that the majority of people are fundamentally good. And so perhaps I should stop engaging with them and resort to the deal I have made with raccoons - if they don’t insist on inflicting themselves on me in ways that directly impact my life in a negative way despite my attempts to cede nearly the entire planet to them and exclude them from the tiny remainder, I will leave them alone.
not clicking on threads that annoy me would be a first step. I seem easily annoyed this days, so if you need me for anything, try messages.
CL, it sounds like your mom was positive and looking for the best in people. Better that then to be paranoid.
You addressed me by name, and I responded to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
Anyway, I'm not trying to fight with anyone, I am trying to point out that I think shaming people and ridiculing them will not help to achieve whatever social engineering one is trying to accomplish.
Tomorrow is two weeks and today California hit another record high number of cases. Let's see if things magically improve overnight. With a two week incubation period for covid the masks, if they really work, will stop this spike in less than 24 hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Masks were an attempt to open things up without increasing the virus to the point it overwhelms the hospital system. Whether it could work with perfect compliance who knows, some say so based on models, but you don't get perfect compliance in present reality esp in the U.S. at this point. Maybe after enough deaths and sicknesses and enough opening and reclosing again and again, maybe then you get compliance with wearing a piece of clothing.
More stuff is being locked down again, Cali going into partial lockdown again. I never thought they should have opened stuff up period, it was foolish and it was rushed, and some health officials objected and said exactly that. And they opened stuff up where masks could not POSSIBLY be worn like restaurants and bars, now they are closing. Perhaps our powers that be here do have *some* interest in keeping R at 1 or close or below, as without it you get ever increasing cases and eventually overwhelm the medical system. I was afraid they would go for that "screw the medical system, full speed ahead". But perhaps not.
BTW you don't see results from anything in a two week period, you are again making things up, NYC went into a hard lockdown after their crisis and didn't see declining cases until more like a month.
Perhaps someone will come up with a proboscis mask for the die-hard drinkers among us. :idea:
Perhaps we need to rethink the whole anti-straw thing. We could have masks with a small opening for straws. No removal required to drink! Then bars could open up somewhat safely...Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
My son has a respirator he bought a long time ago. He says it is much easier to breathe through it than through a mask. Respirators actually provide protection too unlike random pieces of cloth. Why are they not being promoted? Politics my friend.
It’s not politics. It’s that there are nowhere near 300 million respirators available. If everyone would wear a damn mask they would go a long way towards protecting the well from the infected people. You know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
What are we talking respirators anyway, N95 masks, or those plastic respirator things? Like this: https://www.grainger.com/product/3M-...spirator-5T569
I'm not sure many of the latter were ever designed for medical usage, some are, but I suspect many were designed for labor of the sort that generates lots of dust etc.. So their effectiveness, who knows. Some say much of covid is droplet transmission (the whole droplet v aerosols thing) so then ANY of it AND faceshields as well would probably work for droplets.
It's just with a respirator you are going to look like: I'm ready for World War I, bring on the mustard gas! It's a scary look … But if that what it takes to get people to cover their face … who knew.
I think I posted somewhere around here the measured respiratory effort for different sorts of masks/respirators.
Science and data often disagree with "my son said...".
Here's some N95 data:
https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/55/8/917/265317
Since we wear these respirators while doing heavy labor, we do a fair bit of training in how to manage our breathing and work output safely, and we have telemetry of some of our vitals for real-time feedback and correction.
Mask effectiveness, by type of material, off-the-presses Tuesday:
https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0016018
Interesting and useful information. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
That meshes well with my "mask test" post. And I'm glad to see all those busy mask makers out there are doing some good.
I was thinking about Wuhan. Fireworks were invented in China, but people there did not respond to a lockdown by setting off fireworks. They stayed home until they were told they could leave home and then obediently wore masks. Americans are a different breed.
I am happy to live in the USA with what some see as the wretched refuse "yearning to breathe free".
We bought more masks so don’t have to wash so much. The countries that are most compliant will have less deaths, disabilities and will get their lives back sooner. Unfortunately because of stupid people our country won’t be in that category.
Fixed it for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
I thought this article in the Washington Post was enlightening. It interviews Fauci and four other leading disease experts with questions about how they handle day-to-day situations like handling mail and groceries, dining out, doctor visits, meeting with friends and family, gyms, and exercise. I subscribe, but I think they are offering free access to Covid-19 articles. There are some obvious unknowns and there was not total agreement on everything, but all are very cautious.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...c93_story.html
I bicycle about two hours most days on a local recreational trail. I go in the early hours when it is not busy, but will still encounter a few dozen walkers and cyclists. Very few wear a mask and as the trail is only about ten feet wide social distancing is unlikely for very short time periods where one passes another. I wear a neck gator, doubled up and pulled up over my face. It's thin enough to not restrict too much air flow and is not especially hot. I worry about the risk and wish more would wear a mask, but the risk seems low and one I'm willing to take (so far) to be outside and get some exercise. Other wise I think I am mostly inline with the experts.
Interesting article Rogar. What struck me was the elitism. Many respondents had a cleaning person. Some quotes:
"I would die if I didn't do takeout."
"I have a pool at home."
"I had a gym built into my house."
Quite a difference from the way many front line workers, a significant number of whom earn minimum wage, live.
My local LA Fitness is getting weird. First day they said they didn’t want me putting a grocery bag with my sandals and a purse on the floor. Wanted me to actually surrender my purse to them to put at front desk! Nope! Employee said next time no bag on the floor.
Yesterday I went in with a small fanny pack I use when bike riding outside. I hung it off bike hand grip. Not touching floor at all. Different employee got pissy about me having a bag. I suggested he look at the other exercisers who had large bags on the floor by their cardio machines. He slunk away and left me alone.
Why I need a bag of some sort is that you have to wipe down the machines with paper towels and a disinfectant when you’re done. It is far away from the bike. I need both hands free. I’m not leaving my keys, phone, wireless headphones, and good stainless steel water bottle on the bike for someone to steal while I’m getting the stuff to wipe the bike down.
Makes no freaking sense.
I suppose being a national leading disease expert pays pretty well and they can afford a few luxuries, as well as dedicating a lot of time to their work instead of house cleaning. I don't know if I'd call that elitism, but I don't think it diminishes their testimonies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Many middle class people have cleaners. I had one monthly as did my friends when we worked full time. Take out can be fast food so poor people get that. If I was wealthy I would have those other amenities they mentioned.
Of course. My coworker, who worries a lot about germs, still has a cleaner come in. In this pandemic, I wouldn't do it (no that I did otherwise - I mean there is no infinite money font, I can buy that or organic food is almost it).Quote:
Many middle class people have cleaners. I had one monthly as did my friends when we worked full time. Take out can be fast food so poor people get that. If I was wealthy I would have those other amenities they mentioned.
I only had a cable guy come (for internet) after nearly 3 months of working from home on painfully slow internet (work got done and fairly productively as well, the downsides of that were mostly suffered by me not work, it was all about fighting my internet every day. Then after they came I left home for hours before going back home). Minimum wage though, noone confuses minimum wage with middle class. I don't have my own gym, there are times I have thought of exercise machines though, in a one bedroom but so what, might not make sense. Meantime there are hand weights etc.. Not ideal, yea well since when has anything been in this pandemic.
Thanks for sharing that. It was interesting getting a number of different perspectives from people who actually know the science and facts as well as anyone can, and seeing that even the experts don't agree on every single thing. But certain things were pretty much all agreed on. No indoor restaurants. Spacing outside. Masks whenever in the presence of others. Keep away from friends that aren't being as cautious as you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
I'm in line with all the precautions that would pertain to my life, although I no longer go out to shop.
Great article Roger. Thanks.
I’m sharing it with my family and friends who often ask me the hard questions that are addressed in this article. Basically, “how do we go about our daily lives for the long term, to mitigate risk but still do the necessary things?”
I was relieved that none of them are hiring anyone to wipe down theIr purchases from the grocery store. A couple of them to set their purchases aside for a day without touching them. I was doing that for a while, but stopped and maybe I’ll go back to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Yeah--I'm not too concerned any more with wiping down and such, thought I wash my hands thoroughly after bringing groceries in, and observe a lag time in dealing with some deliveries.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
I never got in the habit of that. What I’ve done all along is try to buy non-perishables far enough ahead of time that I can just put them in the cabinet when I get home and by the time we will touch them again enough time will have passed.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies