A Better Way

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Originally Posted by bae

I'm the eldest son in my family. I had to buy my own first car, when I was 20......

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I bought my first car at 16 for $300 which I paid off making $25 per week payments, my dad later sold it and kept the money. Being the oldest of 5, I was expected to be the responsible one so taking that to heart, I left home at 17 and never went back. I've never received a dime from my parents although I have made several loans to family that have never been repaid and I suspect never will. No biggie! All the 'privilege' and 'patriarchy' generalizations amuses me.

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Originally Posted by happystuff

I am one of eight children; ask any one of us about growing up and you will get eight different stories and with eight different reactions. :)

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True in my family of 4 kids as well. Oldest, my only brother could do no wrong in my mother's eyes and harmed him as a result. He did sort of get his act together after significant challenges and a wonderful second wife. My mother apologized for being so hard on me as the first daughter in her mid 70's. I agree that making my own way was both a benefit and motivator to me now. I have no regrets.
I am with Cath and Happy stuff about the 'better way' and have chosen that route all my life. I am responsible for my thinking, choices and behaviour.

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Originally Posted by Alan

I bought my first car at 16 for $300.

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I believe mine was also $300, a ~20 year old Datsun 510 station wagon with many mechanical and body issues, and bald tires. I spent more than $300 the next day on my brand-new Sears charge card purchasing tools and tires to get it road-worthy, then drove it to SF from San Diego to work like a techno-serf the entire summer to generate income to pay for the next year of college.

I think my sister spent that summer at the mall buying stuff.

Alan - another oldest who left home ASAP like me. Interesting ...

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Originally Posted by bae

I believe mine was also $300, a ~20 year old Datsun 510 station wagon with many mechanical and body issues, and bald tires.

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$700 for a '70 VW Bug... with a sunroof!!! Loved that car and went on many a road trips. LOL. Sold it to one of my sisters upon enlisting and she blew out the engine. Yes! A car needs oil!!! ROFLOL

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Originally Posted by razz

I am with Cath and Happy stuff about the 'better way' and have chosen that route all my life. I am responsible for my thinking, choices and behaviour.

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That's three! We're on a roll. ;)

My first car was $100--a really beat-up Chevy Vega that my cousin had traveled across the country with with a bunch of Hare Krishnas.

My sons had a very sad assortment of beaters: an ancient Audi that had a horn that would just start blaring with no warning; a Ford Probe that had a radio that wouldn't work unless the passenger door was open; a hand-me-down Pulsar that was so rotted the muffler was held up with wire. The "baby" of the family, my daughter got a 4-year old VW Beetle, and I have to say, DH and I heard about that from the boys. My DH said he was more concerned about the safety of the girl than the boys. Lame excuse.

But as far as the "selfish" gene vs the "selfless" gene, I can't say that any of my kids feel more entitled than the other. Same with my brothers in my FOO. Maybe because neither families had much more than a pot to piss in or fight over.

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

Why dont you elsborate on “the gift economy” since that is Something you talk about but it is unclear to me what it is, if money is indeed allowed to change hands in it. I had assumed gift economy meant bartering, no money.

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You are not wrong--bartering is part of it. Money can change hands, but there is no expectation, and neither is there a specific value ascribed to the product or service.

I think the major component of The Gift Economy is that it is founded on trust and community. You don't EXPECT a certain amount of money. The economy is based on the relationships among the people, not on the specific dollars and cents.

So, the gift economy can be a website designer who designs a website for free, or accepts whatever the client is willing to pay, or barter, or simply have NO expectation for reciprocity--they may have more of an expectation that things will come around in a "pay it forward" kind of way. That's why it takes a lot of trust to embark on it.

Daniel Suelo, the Man Who Quit Money (name of the book by Mark Sundeen), uses the analogy of a bear who picks raspberries off a bush in the forest and eats them. The raspberry bush doesn't say, "You owe me for those raspberries." And then the bear poops out the raspberries and "pays" the forest floor with the manure, which becomes enriched with nutrients and grows more vegetation and feeds the raspberry bush. Very simplistic way to say "it's an eco-system"--but the sad thing is, our current monetary system ignores the natural reciprocity that takes place in nature, which leads to a huge imbalance on many levels--economic, environmental, psychological, sociological.

That's my perception of the Gift Economy, anyway. Others may disagree or have other ideas about it.

Thanks, Catherine, that's a good explanation. I know nothing about it, so I appreciated that.

I am the oldest and the responsible, whatever money parents may or may not give one growing up they also never gave me much guidance as a kid either to navigate either the childhood or the adult world, so you kind of raise yourself with neglectful parents (not just permissive neglectful so not much limits and not much on the affection and emotional support side either). And you don't even know what exists out there all that much when young and never having really been given any input, and take whatever advice you can get from whereever. But that part may be universal for the young although some may be given some lay of the land. But yea generally neglectful all that can be said is they did meet our bare physical needs like food, and were smart well educated people who never wanted to parent but one can absorb some things that way.

And as for what is expected of me? Oh that depends on the mood of the day - many contradictory things - one day what they want is for me to go to college, the next day it's for me to drop out of high school and support myself already!, the next day I'm too young to look for a part time job, I should be studying.

And yes everything my parents had doesn't go to me and that part is objectively unfair. It came like a shock and a gut punch to learn that only squeeky wheels get grease, but I've accepted it, with resentment you bet, but.