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I obviously can't speak for others but it occurs to me that some of our more progressive members have been predicting a civil war for years which I've always laughed off as silliness. But I think we may actually be approaching our Fort Sumter moment now, what with the most energetic and vocal portion of one of our 2 major political parties on the verge of sedition. If that's true Bae is right, it will end badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
I’ll bet Dr. Ian Roberts, disgraced superintendent of the Des Moines Public schools, now wishes he was a Twin Cities educator. The protective ring around that felon/ con man woulda kept him out of jail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Some more US citizens being killed or injured by federal agents in the streets.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Sooner or later some idiot, or person in the wrong place at the wrong time, will injure or kill a federal agent, and there will be a robust reaction by the government to that. Which will then escalate things.
It may extend to idiots deciding to do some of the more foolish 1960s attacks against federal facilities and employees, and/or federal forces engaging in activities that the general population views as more and more oppressive.
I'm picturing the 1960s, but worse.
Perhaps at some point some adults will de-escalate the situation, and things will calm down. Nobody sane would want this sort of escalation.
I don't see an armed civil war in the future but there are a number of tipping points that would escalate Minnesota type tensions or LA riots. One would be trump trying to rig another election. As long as ICE keeps brutally dragging people out of their cars and homes and harassing innocent people in what ever city, some innocent person or people are going to get hurt or worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Trump recently said, "if they do anything to bad our people, they will have to suffer". That sort of escalation could sure get out of control fast.
The revolution will not be televised.
Yes, you would say Lenin disapproved of peaceful protests! Also, consider the relationship between trump and Putin and his “boyfriend” in North Korea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Yes, frightened 5 year old children imprisoned and elderly Hmong man (American citizen) brought out in freezing weather in his underwear. These are just a few examples that need to be protected. Obviously, this behavior is acceptable to you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
What I actually said, or at least implied, is that Lenin approved of the use of propaganda to influence sympathetic, like minded individuals. I'm not sure he respected them though, he called them 'useful idiots'.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
I think of that every time I see people repeat that someone arrested or detained is said to have be 'abducted', when someone who entered the country illegally is called an 'undocumented worker', when those tasked with enforcing immigration law are called 'gestapo' or those who agree with their mission 'nazi's', when a 5 year old child left alone in the street by a fleeing father is said to have been 'abducted' and then used as 'bait' when efforts are made to return him to his mother's home and no one will answer the door because they are here illegally too. That's all world class propaganda spread by willing participants and I'm sure Lenin would be proud of just how right he was.
At this point of observing the same media clips that everyone else has seen and reading some firsthand experiences and hearing them described, I’m confident there’s plenty of instances where ICE agents are acting like Goons to United States citizens they do not intend to deport.
Right here then, there is a divide in philosophy between me and those who are protesting ICE presence. I want to see people who are in this country with court orders to vacate our country be escorted out of the country. I want to see people who are here without legal status to be here to be escorted out of the country. I don’t much care if they are “the worst of the worst.”
I don’t know what legal rights are afforded to those who are here illegally so I can’t speak of that although I know they certainly have rights, but they’re not the same rights that citizens have. They’re just not! immigration law is a vastly complicated subject and I don’t know it.
So, Drilling down into the issues that have me concerned in Minneapolis:
Behavior by ICE that may be intended as intimidating, is certainly perceived as intimidating, is a real problem. United States citizens in MN are universally expressing a fear of leaving their homes, a fear of being snatched off the street if they walk outside. What is that about? Is that a legitimate fear or that genned up hysteria?
And yes, I know that fear is emotion and we are to respect all emotions and blah, blah blah, but feelings are not facts ( thank you Ben!)
I can’t help but relate this to things that I see in my old neighborhood. After decades of working with local police, entertaining them socially, holding parties in their honor, making a comfy substation in our neighborhood for them, we had a strong relationship with local cops and upper management and that was important to our neighborhood. And then the new people moved in, what we call “checkbook rehabbers” who had done nothing to build the safety and security of our neighborhood, all they knew is houses were now worth half $1 million and they could write a check for their mortgage.
The same Limosine Liberals expressed disgust and fear at something as simple as seeing a cop car sit at the corner of our park. 10 years prior, we would’ve been thrilled with that kind of police presence. Now the newbies are complaining about it. They feel fear and intimidation.
So that is my background and you can see why I just can’t respect a general fear of cops and law-enforcement. That is not to say that ICE is not promoting an atmosphere of intimidation to the point of physical harassment in Minneapolis. I honestly don’t know. I just know that people behave irrationally and I don’t always trust their viewpoint
yes that’s my take on it as well, that language describing some (?many/much?) behaviors of IC agents is incindiary. That serves a purpose for the puppeteers pulling the strings of the useful idiots. But then I do understand that violent behavior is shocking to the average person because we don’t encounter it often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
I challenge those who are so unhappy with ICE actions to watch just three videos on YouTube, simple traffic stops that turned into physical altercations. I can assure you that when a law-enforcement officer gives a citizen a legal order to get out of their car or to present paperwork and identification or etc., and that citizen does not do it, the law enforcement officer does not just say “oh well then, sir, have a nice day” and walk off.
Citizen resistance results in physical altercation by cops. There’s no way around it. Police HAVE TO resort to that if words don’t achieve their mission.
so when the immigrant felon, Dr. Ian Roberts of Des Moines*was “chased down like an animal” according to one Reddit narrative, that is because the good Dr Roberts did not follow a lawful order to turn himself over to cops who were there to arrest him. Yes they chased him down on foot “like an animal “because he chose to run. That was his choice.
* I like always using him as an example because I went down a deep rabbit hole a couple months ago, and I now know this guy’s immigration and professional history and the various issues that are problematic with him. He’s an interesting case and many on this thread would speak with abhorrence at how he was arrested, as though that matters. It doesn’t matter to me HOW he was arrested it just matters that WAS arrested and now jailed because he caught a felony, illegal possession of numerous firearms without having legal status to do so.
My view of the situation is more in line with that of Judge Biery.