The Trayvon Martin incident

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Originally Posted by Stella

I don't watch the news so I don't know anything about this, but I'm surprised at the comments about hoodies. Pretty much everyone I know owns a hoodie. My 64 year old, ethnically Jewish, upper-middle class dad owns a hoodie. He got it from the Catholic seminary where he attends catechetical training classes. My little blond toddlers have hoodies. I see my two next-door neighbors (both named Johnson, actually) out walking their dogs in their hoodies all the time. One is a 60-something white actuary. The other is a 40-something black buyer for Whole Foods. I think his hoodie is actually from his kid's university (University of Wisconsin). It wouldn't occur to me that a hoodie was a dangerous thing to wear or would get you pegged as a gangster.

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Yep. I'm wearing a hoodie now. It's pink - that's the "colors" for us LA SoCal middle-aged female gangsta-ettes. We are a dangerous, violent bunch - we may be having PMS AND hotflashes at the same time :-)! We are the elderly sister gang to the "Crips", known as the "Crypts" :-)! Here in SoCal hoodies have long been a part of surfer culture - normally worn with shorts as I am doing now - and are worn by everyone esle around here too.

As far as this case - I haven't heard enough about it yet to form an opinion, but it seems on the surface that Zimmerman acted totally inappropriately for the circumstances (armed vs. unarmed) and should have been arrested - or at least investigated more thoroughly - at the time of the shooting. Especially in light of all the facts that are coming out much later. While I don't agree that it was a "hate crime", I do think that he used excessive and unnecessary force if there was a physical altercation (and I believe there was). He appeared to be, as Loose Chickens said, "an over zealous cop wanna-be" rather than a racist. In any case, his actions should have been investigated further. Just because you are allowed to carry a weapon, and allowed to shoot someone under certain conditions of self defense, doesn't mean that a shooting will be automaticly justifiable.

A few more facts on Zimmerman - his father is white, his mother hispanic. His neighbors say he is a stand up guy and they all liked him, no one was afraid of him, including his black neighbors. He was not racist. He was the Captain of the Neighborhood Watch in the gated community. He always reported suspicious things to the police. He was licensed to carry a gun. He walked the neighborhood often with his dog keeping an eye on things. Things went very wrong that night, but anyone that knows this man doesn't believe he did anything but act in self defense....

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Originally Posted by Spartana

Yep. I'm wearing a hoodie now. It's pink - that's the "colors" for us LA SoCal middle-aged female gangsta-ettes.

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I wore my hoodie out working in the woods today.

http://shopruger.com/images/4690_L.jpg

Navy blue, made by Carhartt, with a Ruger logo on it, given to me by Mike Fifer, Ruger's CEO. I have to confess I wasn't carrying a Ruger firearm while wearing it though, I figured the peavey, axe and chainsaw were sufficient to repel boarders :-)

I wonder if I was profiled as a thug logger?

I'm finding it hard to believe that some of you all can't differentiate between hooded sweatshirts and "hoodies". Maybe you haven't been around many of these youths to realize that its a statement for them.
The "hoodie" with this group is worn as a statement, along with sunglasses. You'll find in most banks now a sign at the door that says "No hoodies/hats/sunglasses". This certain look has become THE look for a certain group of people, and many times its associated with aggression. Seriously.........how can you not differentiate this? I wear a hooded sweatshirt myself.

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Originally Posted by Wildflower

A few more facts on Zimmerman - his father is white, his mother hispanic. His neighbors say he is a stand up guy and they all liked him, no one was afraid of him, including his black neighbors. He was not racist. He was the Captain of the Neighborhood Watch in the gated community. He always reported suspicious things to the police. He was licensed to carry a gun. He walked the neighborhood often with his dog keeping an eye on things. Things went very wrong that night, but anyone that knows this man doesn't believe he did anything but act in self defense....

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Well, it would appear Zimmerman isn't as squeaky clean as some think. http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...police-officer

http://rollingout.com/culture/george...losed-arrests/

I base my opinion of Zimmerman being racist on the audible part of the 911 tape where he says to send police, then says under his breath, Fu----g coon!
When he said that, all the 'black friends' testimony go out the window.

As one article I read put it, The Stand your ground law isn't there for the loser in a fist fight to pull a gun and shoot the other person.

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Originally Posted by peggy

As one article I read put it, The Stand your ground law isn't there for the loser in a fist fight to pull a gun and shoot the other person.

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I'm not sure what article you read but the Stand Your Ground law actually states that a person may use deadly force in self-defense when there is reasonable belief of a threat, without an obligation to retreat first, so if the rules of engagement for the use of deadly force are met (to protect your life or the life of another), I'd question that blanket assertion.

In most jurisdictions I am familiar with, the claim of self-defense is disallowed if the conflict was initiated by the person making the claim.

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Originally Posted by CathyA

I'm finding it hard to believe that some of you all can't differentiate between hooded sweatshirts and "hoodies". Maybe you haven't been around many of these youths to realize that its a statement for them.
The "hoodie" with this group is worn as a statement, along with sunglasses. You'll find in most banks now a sign at the door that says "No hoodies/hats/sunglasses". This certain look has become THE look for a certain group of people, and many times its associated with aggression. Seriously.........how can you not differentiate this? I wear a hooded sweatshirt myself.

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Maybe I am off base but I have always thought that a hoodie was a hooded sweatshirt??? I got my BIL a hooded sweatshirt for Christmas with a teams logo on it and we all referred to it as a hoodie.

My bank does have the no hoodies, hats, sunglasses signs...and I admit a hoodie, or even a baseball cap makes it a lot easier for cameras to not pick up on you if you are robbing the bank. Obviously they want your face exposed when you walk in the bank. But, I work on a college campus and see hooded sweatshirts/hoodies all the time. All the kids wear them, that's why I was really outraged about the Geraldo comment and mystified by the opinion that that is what the thugs wear. What young person, black, white, asian, doesn't own a hoodie? Honestly, if I think about any crime I associate with wearing a hoodie, its the unabomber.

I live next to a really bad/impoverished area that happens to be mostly black. So, to be a bit un-PC, I am definitely acquainted with the "thug life" look. Wearing a hoodie is not even in the realm of what these folks dress like. Realisticly though, these people are likely committing all sorts of crimes, but they are not generally straying into residential areas to burglarize...they are the stereotypical corner boys, selling drugs.

We also have had multiple break ins in my neighborhood because of its proximity to this area, and the people we (neighbors) have caught in the act dress nothing like Trayvon Martin. In general, they look and dress like crack heads. That is who generally burglarizes and takes stuff off of garages here, drug addicts, not teenage boys. We have several families in the neighborhood who have teen boys, black, white and hispanic, and they all have a similar look. I don't have any concept of what the hoodie, aggressive look is...my city is over half African American and I have honestly never seen this look.

I have several black male friends who have told me similar experiences to those being shared in the media about black people being more scrutinized than other races for criminal behavior, and so I have to believe this is true. One of my friends, when we were teens, was in an upscale department store and detained for several hours on suspicion of shop lifting. He was student council president and the son of a doctor. It was the most ridiculous allegation and turned out to be baseless. I was talking to another friend once about the whole "driving while black," thing...was it really true? I didn't really believe it. They were probably just pulling over suspicious people who also happened to be black. He had been pulled over multiple times for no reason than being in the white part of town at a late hour, or even with no explanation. He has always driven a boring sedan and never looked suspicious in any way. Honestly, at the time I was floored that this happens. I have never been pulled over and asked to explain why I am in a certain part of town. I would be outraged if this was systemically happening to me on a regular basis. Now, I do have to mention I am in the deep south, which even compared with FL still has a different level of racism. We don't really know for sure if race was a motivating factor in this incident, but after hearing these personal experiences from educated, clean cut, law abiding black men, I will have to say that I think race could have been an issue, even an unconscious stereotype.

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But, I work on a college campus and see hooded sweatshirts/hoodies all the time. All the kids wear them, that's why I was really outraged about the Geraldo comment and mystified by the opinion that that is what the thugs wear. What young person, black, white, asian, doesn't own a hoodie?

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Like you I associate hoodies with college kids as much as anything. I lived in jeans, t-shirts and hoodies in college.

I thought of this thread last night when I was out walking after dark with DH and a young black man in a hoodie (hood up, it was windy) came up behind us and politely excused himself as he passed us. It would not have occured to me to be afraid of him, or think he was a gangster because of his attire, in large part because we were both wearing some version of the same thing. Jeans, a shirt and a hoodie. It made me a bit sad to think that others might see this kid, who was carrying his groceries home, from the look of things, as a suspicious person because of his clothing. I don't think anyone blinks an eye when I, a 33 year old white woman, pass them.

If I were all alone I might have been a bit more nervous because as a woman I am always a bit more nervous about people I don't know when I am walking alone after dark, but it wouldn't have changed my behaviour, just my awareness level.

I would assume the "no hoodie and sunglasses" rule at a bank is because it's a common thing for bank robbers to wear because it conceals identity to some extent. I'd imagine they'd object to wearing masks too. :)

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Originally Posted by bae

In most jurisdictions I am familiar with, the claim of self-defense is disallowed if the conflict was initiated by the person making the claim.

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well that makes sense.