Entitlement feeling

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Originally Posted by Gregg

I kind of mentioned it in another post today, but my feeling is that our society is so heavily subsidized that we are all "entitled". Even those who rail against welfare mommas and section 8 deadbeats and whatever other misinterpreted stereotype you care to conjure up. We expect cheap gas and cheap food and cheap power and cheap healthcare and free roads and free schools and on and on. It is extremely difficult to find things in our lives that have not been subsidized by a government program at some point.

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Exactly right. The New York Times ran an article some months ago on an outstate-Minnesota town where they examined where U.S. government tax dollars were spent and then asked the residents what they thought of "safety net" benefit programs. It was surprising to find out just how many people were receiving government benefits -- but didn't think they were: aid to learning-disabled kids, farm subsidies, mortgage-interest deductions, ...:

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He says that too many Americans lean on taxpayers rather than living within their means. He supports politicians who promise to cut government spending. [snip]

Yet this year, as in each of the past three years, Mr. Gulbranson, 57, is counting on a payment of several thousand dollars from the federal government, a subsidy for working families called the earned-income tax credit. He has signed up his three school-age children to eat free breakfast and lunch at federal expense. And Medicare paid for his mother, 88, to have hip surgery twice.

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Many of the benefits and tax breaks created over the years are there to encourage particular behaviors. Unraveling them will take a long time and may lead to consequences many did not anticipate. I wonder if we, as a population, really are up to it.

Subsidies in terms of cheap oil and stuff sure, living off the future environmentally, I can't argue. Otherwise, no I'm not subsidized and I know I'm just a cow to be milked in the spring for the farmer's profit, and slaughtered for meat when I get too old probably. They'll take most of what are called "entitlements" away from my generation, mark my word.

I get what gregg is saying, we're living off the future, but we're not all taking entitlements proper. It's like I have a sibling who has lived off my parents their entire life (still do), at least 8 years past the age when I was long since moved out on my own, and my parents pay everytime they get in trouble and they get in lots and lots and lots of trouble, costing thousands at every pop, we are talking over 100k here total, no joke. Then if I ever bring it up, it's like "apathetic is the same way, you paid for her dinner once .....".

When I was dancing professionally, I would go on unemployment between jobs. We paid into it when we were working, and so did our employer. We used to refer to it as "Unenjoyment." I don't see it as the same.

I don't have the mortgage interest deduction, because my tiny and inexpensive home is paid off. (Suze Orman style.)

I would like to see people budget carefully, buy smaller homes, have the number of children they can afford, save money, and live beneath their means. Many people used to live this way. We have more control than we realize.

Government assistance that I have received so far in my life:
Food stamps for 2 months while transitioning from being married to single mom/student.
4 years of government subsidied loans for my nursing degree.
mortgage interest deductions
farm subsidies (when I was co-owner of a factory hog farm)
Earned income tax credit for having too many children
tax credit for buying a hybrid car

I have not looked for these programs...but when they have benefited my family, I have taken advanage of them.
Over the course of my life so far, I think I have paid in more than I have taken out. But you Rebublican, non-parent persons may have a different perspective. :)

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Originally Posted by Gregg

http://obamaphone.net/

Yea, its pretty crazy.

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check snopes: http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp

edited: sorry Gardenarian, I didn't see your post on this.

Time magazine Sept. 17 issue cover story was "One Nation Subsidized - How Big Government underwrites your life."

The author, a young married father of two, pointed out the subsidies he gets (and many of us get) that we don't even realize, including:
billions spent by fed gov't to provide clean water; cotton subsidies approaching $1.3 Billion a year; home office tax deductions; energy subsidies totaling more than $138 Billion a year to defray electricity costs; Charitable tax deductions; Depreciation of business property like computers and other capital goods cost the feds $5.7 Billion in 2011; Deductions for health care expenses; Home mortgage interest deductions = $84 Billion/year; subsidies for energy efficient home improvements; Federally subsidized home flood insurance; etc. etc.

Basically we're all moochers in one way or another, if that's how we want to look at it.

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Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

The companies aren't paying. It's one of the lines of taxes on every phone bill, it's only on there every month.

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Yes I said it's a "...mandated tax on communication services". You call it "phone bill" I call it "communication services."

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Originally Posted by Spartana

As for things like SS. medicare, unemployment, etc... I personally don't consider them entitlement programs as you had to earn them somehow - generally thru working a large portion of your life.

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But they are generally considered "entitlement programs" when having conversations about the Federal budget. It's just a policy term and means "...guarantee of access to benefits based on established rights or by legislation." There's nothing wrong with calling them that.

But certainly in any discussion about Federal delivered human services the word "entitlement" gets bandied about and ya gotta define your terms.

I point that out a great deal.

While not on direct assistance such as these programs, we do benefit from ACC (our national health care system here), as well as education subsidies. In NZ, all schools are supported by the government. ALL of them. Which means that the private school that my son goes to is a "special character" school and as such, they charge "special character donation." this donation is tax deductable and they also can't force you to pay it. Our school has $500 mandatory, non-tax deductable "processing fee" -- which is essentially what constitutes the tuition for the school. Everything else counts as "fund raising."

this means that in stead of staying in the US and paying $6k/annum for DS's schooling at this age, $10k/annum during grades, and $14k annum junior high and onwards, I pay $500 minimum and they "ask" that you donate $2k more per year (or more if you'd like).

The fact that it's tax deductible too makes it something that the government subsidizes again. There are lots of other ways, too, of course -- roads and police forces, and so on. But food is not subsidized or modestly so, same with power and gas.

I laugh when my friends in the US complain about the price of gas (and usually blame obama for some ignorant reason), liking pictures like "Like if you think gas should cost this much!" and showing a sign from the 1990s when gas was $.89/gal. They complain that -- in their area --it's over $4 per gallon!

oh no! It's over $9/gal here now. And honestly, we don't complain. NZ is heading toward (and preparing for) peak oil. They've been researching how to manage it for the last 5 years, and they've been decreasing the oil subsidy in order to ease people into using less petrol over time. And, people have responded overall. The only major problem is rural bus routes/driving routes and the cost of setting up the other transportation needs in/around cities in addition. So, there are several issues with which they are contending, but yeah.

I keep pointing out that the price of gas has a lot to do with the value of the dollar as compared to back then, the shifting cost and it's relationship to OPEC (and war, etc), the relative supply/demand issues independent of OPEC etc, and so on and so forth.

No, it's really obama's fault (or whomever is president). And gas "should be" only $.89 per gal. Right?

Everyone's a welfare queen these days. LOL

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The author, a young married father of two, pointed out the subsidies he gets (and many of us get) that we don't even realize, including:

Basically we're all moochers in one way or another, if that's how we want to look at it.

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Um we pay taxes, shouldn't we get *something* for it. I mean maybe morally 100% SHOULD go to the military industrial complex, but you know greedy plebs, want a little something back from their tax load. It's not like we're necessarily getting a lot for our taxes considering how much we pay, we frankly get very little, is it really some big problem that some of the taxes, and taxes run 20-25% of my income every year, pays for something we use (like we can use the national parks during the week or two vacation we get a year).

The only big benefits, benefits that may be far more than what was paid, that exist are for the elderly, and they keep moving them further and further out of reach (ie keep raising the retirement age, and I expect more, I fully expect my generation will be on deaths doorstep before we can collect social security).

70% of people that pay income taxes take the standard deduction. Not everyone is getting itemized deductions. That's just the select 30%. We are the 70%.