Wow, that source shows the 85006 to be higher in crimes against persons than my zip code here in the murder capital of the U.S.Quote:
Originally Posted by dmc
Yay, Rob! I bow to your superior toughness.
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Wow, that source shows the 85006 to be higher in crimes against persons than my zip code here in the murder capital of the U.S.Quote:
Originally Posted by dmc
Yay, Rob! I bow to your superior toughness.
IL, I've always been a strong person in many ways. You can see that here in some of my posts as I am quite capable of holding my own against opposition and don't at all mind holding unpopular beliefs providing that I truly believe in said beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
But to the main point of your post here - I'm not buying that crime is this bad in the 85006.....I have had nothing stolen or had any criminal incidents against me take place since living in the 85006 years ago. I do know of some folks who have had their cars stolen - Phoenix was an auto theft capital back in the mid to late 90's but I undertand that's cooled off a bit now. Drugs would be the big deal here - selling and possession and of course crimes committed for money to buy drugs - but like I said, I have not been a crime victim since living here and my block has been crime free (other than one neighbor having some patio furniture stolen two years ago). A lot of this has to do with not being out and about late at night - thereby protecting yourself from both thugs AND the police (in the 85006 we often debate which group is worse - police or those they arrest?) Having nothing to do with drugs in any way shape or form helps, too, as does being on good terms with all your neighbors and getting involved in the neighborhood. It's really not all that bad in the 85006. Rob
It's not strange if you stop and think.....I know too much about how America really works to ever fit into a "nicer" area - and in a said "nicer" area there would be no peace for me as I would ALWAYS feel the need to watch my back 24/7/365, once again because I know too much about America and how it really works. At least I don't have to watch my back 24/7/365 in the 86006 and here I often witness human decency and kindness in action - it would be too soul depleting to give that up to live in a Watch Your Back 24/7/365 zip code. No can do. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by dmc
Some of the anger is due to the fact that it is so almost impossible these days to accomplish anything in America, so why even bother trying? I'm not sure I agree with the why bother trying part, but yes, it is almost impossible to accomplish anything in America. I can vouch for this personally and I see it every day in the 85006. However, here we have someone - a doctor - who has managed to make something of himself in the eyes of this highly questionable society - good for him. Look at how America treats him regardless!!! Were it not for smartphone video this incident would have been completely swept under the rug - such is how America works. The anger felt in the 85006 has a lot to do with how pointless and meaningless living in America truly is these days, and yes, there is a great deal of anger in the 85006 over this unfortunate United Airlines incident. The overall 85006 take is that this incident is yet more proof that America doesn't work for most of it's citizens/permanent residents unless they are in the 1 percent. Though there is also gratitude in the 85006 for smartphones being affordable now and trickling down to this zip codes so as to protect yourself against America and such incidents.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
This is not a rich people's problem. This is a problem of an entire country really not working well for the majority of it's citizens/permanent residents, and of more and more of the country waking up to this fact. Rob
What's the logical connection between a doctor's spat with an airline and the state of American health care?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
The link for me personally is this: Due to my fear of the United States (for not being worth affordable access to health care in the US before ObamaCare) i of course will factor these years of terror into any financial decision such as do I give up a shift to protest the United Airlines brand. Along with the other variables I mentioned that factored into my decision to protest again last night. Years of lack of access to health care will ALWAYS factor into any economic decision I make - I will NEVER be able to "unsee" these years. Would you realistically expect me to do otherwise, given that I am essentially a decent human being? RobQuote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
Almost impossible to accomplish anything in America? You may be able to vouch for that personally, but there are millions of others who give the lie to that assertion every day. Many of them came here illegally to accomplish something.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
"America" did not do anything to that doctor. America is not a person. You're freighting a single incident of bi-lateral stupidity with some kind of transcendent importance that simply doesn't exist in reality.
You may regard your own life in America as "pointless and meaningless", but I think you're making a generalization that doesn't apply to others. And blaming "America" for a pointless life is ridiculous. Meaning is not something that can be delivered by a government entitlement program.
So you hate and fear America for failing to provide you with inexpensive health care. United Airlines is part of America. Therefore United Airlines is the enemy?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
So, even though the other citizens of the United States pay the majority of your health care needs through subsidies (which many of them do not qualify for), you still hate the United States? All this time later, I still fail to see the logic in that.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
Your continuing resentment at not being served by your fellow Americans early enough and on a greater scale leads me to question your definition of "decent human being". Different outlooks I guess, but maybe that's just me.
The description of the festive atmosphere at your several protests, mainly through your emphasis on food and drink, makes me think the protests are more of a social outing in the 85006. A day off work is always cause for celebration, glad you're having fun.
Alan, a quick question for you: What is it about my insistence that if you wish to have my loyalty, I expect access to affordable health care for both myself and the masses in general? Every other developed country on this planet provides such access - why is my expectation for such as a price tag to anything remotely resembling loyalty such an issue/problem/inexcusable evil for conservatives such as yourself? This is something I will never understand from a basic, common sense perspective. Ball in your court, etc. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by Alan
PS Just came back to add that the protests are of course serious events, though there is some networking, meeting new people, socializing and getting to know others going on, and this does tend to center around food and drink, yes. This is just a portion of the protest and not the main reason for attending/participating, however. It's just one aspect of the experience and not the reason for the experience overall.
It is amazing to me how conservatives can not understand something to me which seems so simple as breathing air. Ay carumba. My point once again is that I will NEVER be able to "unsee" all the years of fear I lived in in America due to lack of access to affordable health care so that the wealthy could become wealthier - this is an abuse I would not have had to tolerate in ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE DEVELOPED WORLD. (due to every other developed country, and even a few developing countries, offering access to affordable health care to citizens). I am incapable of forgiving America for this abuse - I believe in basic human rights and basic human dignity far too much to ever forgive such - so of course these years of needless terror so that others could become wealthier will factor into ANY financial decision I make. That's just living common sense, and that's also living my values. This stance is completely non-negotiable, as I believe in basic human rights and basic human dignity. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
I think there's value in self-reliance and a certain amount of selfishness in expecting others to shoulder your responsibilities. I don't think it should be encouraged by a redistributionist government, but rather reserved for those in need through no fault of their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
And just so you know, I have no desire for anyone's loyalty, it comes at too high a cost.
I would've thought that with all his years in power that Sheriff Joe would've gotten things cleaned up by now. I guess that tent jail wasn't such a success after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by dmc
LOL You said it.....I'm so glad to see Penzone in and the atrocity that is Tent City being dismantled. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by jp1
I guess I'll just have to agree to disagree with you, Alan. No great surprise here but I see your stance as causing this citizenship to be less competitive with/less desirable than many others due to access to health care issue (though I will admit for the winners under ObamaCare as IL calls them (and no snark here, I've already conceded that she has a point on this) things are not as dire as they once were). Now health care insecurity has spread upwards from the lower social classes so many more people are experiencing what i know about America already. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by Alan
I understand you harbor a lot of resentment about the health care system. What I don't understand is how you apply that resentment to a dispute over a seat on a Chicago to Louisville flight.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
Like Alan I am for helping people that can't help themselves but not for helping those that don't want to work hard. I was young, poor and a single, divorced mom at one point. I could have went on welfare and received all sorts of freebies but instead I worked a crappy job to support my son and myself. I was lucky to have family help and went to college to get a good job, etc. There is more opportunity in this country then in many. Getting somewhere requires hard work and sacrifice. Some people lack the abilities, skills, etc and will need help but not everyone. I am for single payer health care and think one day we will have it. I probably won't live to see it. However, just because we are lacking in one area does not mean we are a horrible country. All countries have issues. We have talked about this with my DIL from Poland where they have great healthcare but not enough jobs for it's people and the pay is low. When we visit the prices are so cheap for us but not for the people that live there. We shop in the best stores and eat at the most expensive restaurants while there which is not something we do in the states. Sorry Rob but utopia is a dream.
Rob, if your mother died tomorrow, how long would it take for you and your SO to apply for residency in Mexico?
And here's the important question: do you/would you meet the Mexican requirements for residency, including the all-important financial one?
I read this morning that the CEO of united is taking full responsibility and saying that they are turning a corner in their approach to all things customer service related.
The problem with that argument is that you assume that all people who who wind up with health care needs aren't self-reliant and they actually expect others to shoulder their responsibilities.Quote:
value in self-reliance and a certain amount of selfishness in expecting others to shoulder your responsibilities.
You're in pharma, Alan, as I am. I interview patients, and these past two weeks I have been interviewing people with rare auto-immune disorders. Here's a snapshot:
Patient A: 39 year old former funeral home director who loved her job but who now can't even get in a car to drive. No job. No insurance. No way to get the treatments that will actually help her. She recently downsized into a small apartment-it's all she can afford.
Patient B: 41 year-old former high-powered founder of an international branding company with a million dollar home he has to sell because he was suddenly struck with this weird disease. He can't work. He can't even get off the couch. He desperately misses his old life. At least he has insurance.
Patient C: A 55 year old woman who has had this disease since college. She can't afford the best treatment. She hates the burden she is to her family. She hates feeling like an imposition, that she's not the person she should be. So in spite of her disease, she gets herself to a part-time job with a compassionate employer and works until 1, at which point, she's totally spent for the day.
I interview these patients and I spend my whole ride home praying, "There but for the grace of God go I." As a citizen and extended neighbor of these people, I will offer my taxes so that Patient A might be able to get back to her funeral home, and Patient B will be able to potentiate his abilities in leadership and marketing, and Patient C can have her family to dinner without feeling like she's a failure as mother and wife.
Yes catherine people can work hard and do everything right and then something totally out of their control happens and their lives fall apart. I saw this in my work when I worked for the state helping people with disabilities get back to work. People can have lots of $ saved but it does not last when you have no job, income, health insurance, etc. It really is sad.
Actually, No. I know and understand that there are many people who through no fault of their own are unable to provide for their healthcare needs. I sympathize with them and fervently believe society should provide a safety net to ensure their needs are met. On the other hand, there are an equal or higher number of citizens who are simply content to let others pay for their needs. I find it irresponsible to encourage them, especially if their loyalty is monetized and available to the highest bidder.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
Hi Tradd, long time no see here, just wanted to start by saying hi. As to your post - my husband is still a Mexican citizen and has a Mexican passport. He is free to return to Mexico at will whenever he wants - it is I that would have to apply for permanent residency in Mexico. We are waiting to see if Pena Nieto's proposals to legalize gay marriage throughout the entire country pass - now it's legal in Mexico City and a few other areas but not the entire country. If it passes, we understand there is to be an immigration sponsorship provision - that would be my easy way in legally, perhaps. We shall see. Barring that, Chile or Uruguay would be of interest and would work. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
Not legal in the entire country?!?!Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
How could you even consider a country that doesn't support basic human rights and basic human dignity like that?
How could you ever forgive them?
Mexico has universal health care for all effective as of 2012....how's that for a start, Bae? RobQuote:
Originally Posted by bae
So you don't care about all the fundamental human rights and dignities? I'm not sure how health care trumps your right to marry your spouse, but....Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
Is there some ranking of which rights matter?
where did you get your information that an equal or higher number of Medicaid or other government health recipients are gamers rather than worthy recipients. I am curious to see your source.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
+1. Given how hideously expensive healthcare is when it isn't subsidized by an employer I'm curious as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere
There has been another unsavory incident, this time on American Airlines (much greater of a concern in the 85006 as American Airlines is one of the big players at the Phoenix Airport) involving an overly aggressive flight attendant going off on a female passenger with crying children. It seems as if American Airlines handled the incident MUCH better than United handled theirs, I'll give them that and I doubt protests against American will be organized, and if they are, I will not attend as I believe I don't have standing to engage in activism based on the facts.
I guess the overall point of this post is that air travel is just a nightmare overall these days - though I will say I've flown Southwest and never once felt this on Southwest - and I will say that on my flights in 2015 with British Airways, TAP Portugal, and Iberia, I did not feel this either. Rob
I flew back to the USA on Iceland Air yesterday.
I helped with one minor medical event (elderly lady couldn't make it up the steep stairs to the craft, slipped, gashed her leg - I caught her as she was falling, kept injuries to the "minor" level, and cleaned up the wound for her.).
Another passenger twisted a knee badly in-flight, I did assessment, provided what treatment was possible in the air, splinted the limb so she could be more comfortable and get off the plane, and called ahead when we landed in Seattle to get Someone Who Cared to meet her for transport to somewhere to deal with her knee properly, as she'd already had multiple knee surgeries on that knee. Frankly, most of the treatment consisted of calming the patient down, and chatting with her multiple small children as we were working - we had one of the kids help "fix Mommy", and the kid seemed so very empowered and proud of herself.
The flight attendants offered to take my details down, so they could reimburse me for the supplies I used, which I thought was a nice touch, though not necessary. But they did talk me into some of those nice Icelandic mini-hamburgers.
So, not so much of a nightmare, at least for me. Glad I always pack along at least some minimal medical supplies - gloves, gauze, some Coflex tape. (TSA has never hassled me about this, oddly, though the gear could have other quite obvious practical uses...) And also glad I carry appropriate ID, they seemed very intent on seeing some sort of medical ID before allowing access to the patient, and the Captain had to give the OK to proceed. They were very well organized upon arrival, they had trained staff with a special aisle-chair to evacuate the patient down the narrow aisle, so I got to see a new-to-me piece of gear.
(Also of note for Iceland Air's customer service - I arrived at Helsinki airport *far* too early, and was condemned, I thought, to sitting outside security until someone arrived to open up their counter so I could check my bag. One of their pilots happened to wander past, took pity on me, opened up their counter with the help of the Aeroflot person at the next counter, and checked my bag for me, so I could get to the secure side of the airport, where the nice restaurants were. An unnecessary but appreciated kindness.)
Icelandic Air is making a big push for customers thru cheap fairs. DH flew Icelandic to Rejevek last fall, to get to Switzerland.
They have been offering some amazing deals, and they make it very easy/worthwhile to stopover for a day->week in Iceland on your way to wherever. And if you are not stopping over, their passenger-shuffling transport model of "everyone flies into Reykjavik, then swaps to the plane leaving Reykjavik in 60 minutes to their final destination" works extremely well, they have worked out all the steps with the customs/immigration/... folks, and it's very smooth.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
United has already settled. Looks like they will stay in business. As I said, this will soon be forgotten.
I beg to differ, dmc, with all due respect. I will never forget this, as i've stated before, and will bring it up whenever appropriate in conversation for the remainder of my life. It is my moral and ethical duty as an adult and a decent human being to do so and I expect no less from myself. One way to put this is you know that saying "Friends don't let friends drive drunk"? In this case, friends don't let friends fly the Hostile and Threatening Skies of the United Airlines Brand. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by dmc
PS Came back to add that a big lesson here for the middle class and above that we in the 85006 (and many similar US zip codes, nothing makes the 85006 special) already know - smartphone video used in conjunction with social media can really level the playing field and lend you human rights against turbo-charged capitalism. I'm hoping that this lesson spreads upwards in the social classes. Rob
Here is the email I got from United this week. The subject line read "Actions Speak Louder Than Words."
Dear Ms xxx,
Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.
Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.
For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?
It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.
Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.
That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.
We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.
We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.
While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.
I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.
Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."
Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.
We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve.
With Great Gratitude,
Oscar Munoz
Oscar Munoz
CEO
United Airlines
So, the uproar did result in positive change.
I am not understanding why this has become a class issue for you, Gimmethesimplelife. It was horrible that United bumped the passenger and called the police and manhandled him. It was horrible when the other airline manhandled the poor mom with her babies,and I really liked that guy that stood up for her. I had similar treatment once from Delta and contemplated suing but I didn't want to get caught up in that negativity, even though it left a really lasting dislike of Delta, and flight attendants in general.
But why is this a class issue, why a lesson for the middle class and above? I'm just not following. By the way, the doctor would be considered an upper class representative because he is a doctor, which is a powerful social position. He has already gotten a lot of money for his assault, which is great, but someone with a lot of money got more money from his attackers, but why would you consider this something that is a victory for the poor? I am just lost here.
The smartphone thing? I am a big believer in the lower classes always having a fully charged (or very close to it) smartphone on their person at all times - at least when they are out and about - as it is the lower classes that experience more police brutality than anyone else as i have posted again and again on this board. Some posters here may be sick of hearing this from me by now and I can't say as I blame them as I have gone on and on about this one. But you asked so I am answering. With smartphone video, one can legally retaliate against the police and the municipality the police work for, reaping huge settlements and cashing in on what America has become. Plus if the video goes viral, there is the added benefit of the entire world having the chance to see point blank in no uncertain terms what America truly is for it's lower classes, which gives the world a chance to reflect on whether it wishes to embrace American values/rhetoric or mercifully kick such to the curb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
Smartphone video can be a blessedly powerful thing. My heartfelt advice is to never leave home without this power - not in the political, legal, and economic climate we face in America today. To not have a smartphone with video capability on your person at all times is to allow yourself be unnecessarily vulnerable to the United States. To anyone not agreeing with this, I ask you this question: Do you honestly think United Airlines would have made any policy changes or paid out a dime as a settlement to Dr. Dao without the video of the incident having gone viral? Of cource not, without the video the entire incident would have been swept under the rug as is the American way. Use smartphone video to empower yourself against the American way.....and this is not necessarily a social class thing - it's an empowerment against what America has become thing. Unfortunately, it is the lower social classes that need this empowerment the most - but I'd argue that EVERYONE these days in American needs this empowerment.....some more than others, mind you, but no one is truly immune from America and what it has become these days. Rob
Thanks for clarifying that, Rob--so it is related to the smartphone and police brutality. That makes sense.
I respectfully disagree with you about "America and what it has become these days."
We are America, in my opinion. We the people.
Yeah, I saw the movie Rosewood the other day--the movie about the massacre in the black community in Florida over a false accusation of rape. It may not seem like we've made progress since then, but we have. Sadly, there were no Smartphones, and no viral videos back then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
I often wonder why your friends let you live in these United States, toxic as they are. Maybe you dont have very good friends? Hmmmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife