Top 3 things that give your life meaning.

Jeppy: Here is something I want you to mull over.

You have called me "lacking in character" and "dishonest" and "dishonorable," a "moocher" and a few other things.

Why? Because I am in the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program.

So my question to you is this: Is this how you assess everyone's character? On one particular issue while ignoring all the other attributes that make a person who they are?

I am many other things besides a participant in the PSLF program.

I am:
-A rescue dog enthusiast
-A vegetarian
-A brother, a friend, an uncle
-A son
-A black belt in Ju Jitsu
-A former activist for GLBTQ rights and marriage equality
-A union member
-A state university employee
-An avid reader

And so on.

Quote:

---

I have a college degree and a DD 214. Guess which one provided me the greatest value.

---

considering veterans have higher homeless rates than the general population (of course this has many causes, they usually start out poorer and minority and that means life is hard) and college grads probably lesser, i'm going with better to go to college.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

considering veterans have higher homeless rates than the general population (of course this has many causes, they usually start out poorer and minority and that means life is hard) and college grads probably lesser, i'm going with better to go to college.

---

I can't show any evidence of my degree contributing to a moderately successful career, I didn't earn the degree until the career was well on its way. My DD 214 though, that made all the difference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore

considering veterans have higher homeless rates than the general population (of course this has many causes, they usually start out poorer and minority and that means life is hard) and college grads probably lesser, i'm going with better to go to college.

---

One caution: many of the stats various groups compile about homeless vets are base on self-reporting by the homeless. It is fairly common for them to lie in order to appear more sympathetic. The groups are happy to use that information because it’s easier to raise funds for troubled veterans than the common run of drug addict.

My college degree made ALL the difference in the world for me getting a good job. I got into the government based on "merit scholar"... meaning you had to have at least a 3.85 GPA. My degree cost me around $5,000. I wrote a proposal for each position I held at any job telling them how a class would help me do the job there. I figured the worse they could say to me was no. So, many times classes, as well as, books were paid in full.

I had only one job that required a degree, and I'm not sure even of that one. My silly little Arts and Letters degree wasn't and isn't worth much, which is, coincidentally, what I paid for it. I'll do it differently next time around.

I mentioned my two sons: my third son works for a public community college and he, like UL, will benefit from the student debt forgiveness program when he hits 10 years. He earns very little, and it's difficult for him and his wife to support the two children they probably "couldn't afford", so he is a target for both Jeppy and UL. He, like Jeppy and UL, is a REALLY GOOD HUMAN BEING. We all do the best we can. We all benefit from living in this country, and sometimes things work against us. It all works out in the end. Just like in a marriage, sometimes you have to give 80% and one day you'll have to accept 80% in help but most of the time it's 50/50.

Catherine your third son is the sort of person deserving of loan assistance. He isn't using taxpayer subsidies to jet around the world every 6 months. It sounds like the loan forgiveness program could benefit from means testing. Some schools like Yale have loan forgiveness programs for their graduates but they are only for low earners, not middle or upper class folks.

I needed both my masters to work in the 2 fields that I did. They were a requirement and I had to be licensed. Catherine’s son is the type of person that loan forgiveness is for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yppej

Catherine your third son is the sort of person deserving of loan assistance.

---

Jeppy, how is it that you are the expert on who deserves loan forgiveness and who doesn't?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yppej

He isn't using taxpayer subsidies to jet around the world every 6 months.

---

But he is using tax payer subsidies to have kids he could not afford. Is having kids you can't afford a luxury enshrined in a protective bubble? Is one luxury you cannot afford any different than another luxury you cannot afford?

Here is the difference: I think Catherine's son should definitely get the benefits from the PSLF program! Sure, I think it was a bad idea to have kids he could not afford. But should that bad idea, that one thing he did, prevent him from having an opportunity to better his life? Should it condemn him to a life of toil and misery? My answer is no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yppej

It sounds like the loan forgiveness program could benefit from means testing.

---

Explain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yppej

Some schools like Yale have loan forgiveness programs for their graduates but they are only for low earners, not middle or upper class folks.

---

What is your point here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry

Catherine’s son is the type of person that loan forgiveness is for.

---

I agree.

I would add that he is not the only person it was made for.

Here is what is so frickin' wacky about TT and Jeppy's anti-logic.

They are upset that I am not poor enough for their standards for the PSLF program.

So they want me to pay so much more back each month that I would then become poor enough to qualify (in their minds) for PSLF.

LMAO!

But wait, there is more TT/Jeppy lunacy here.

Since I was thereby made poor by being in student loan debt and not by any other bad choice I would deserve my poorness and be disqualified from any form of assistance.

Makes perfect sense. LOL

Regarding Catherine's 3rd son, my question to TT/Jeppy is this:

How much of a raise would he have to get to become a dishonorable moocher? What would it take for you all to attack the character of Catherine's son? $10,000 more in salary? $5,000? $15,000? Where is the line?

Come on. Speak up. Cast some stones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ultralight

Here is the difference: I think Catherine's son should definitely get the benefits from the PSLF program! Sure, I think it was a bad idea to have kids he could not afford. But should that bad idea, that one thing he did, prevent him from having an opportunity to better his life? Should it condemn him to a life of toil and misery? My answer is no.

---

I never said he couldn't afford them (that's why I put it in quotes). I really don't know why I put my son in the firing squad. I wasn't asking for adjudication on my son's decision to work for a low-paying public institution, and I certainly didn't ask for judgement on his family choices (and there are circumstances that I did not and will not elaborate on). My point is that once we become taxpayers, we buy in, as citizens, to the administration of policies that we hope will better the lives of other citizens. We could go from house to house of people on food stamps and beat them up for buying soda or Tastycakes, but that's not going to happen. If you don't like the policy, vote the people who voted for it out of office.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by catherine

I never said he couldn't afford them (that's why I put it in quotes). I really don't know why I put my son in the firing squad. I wasn't asking for adjudication on my son's decision to work for a low-paying public institution, and I certainly didn't ask for judgement on his family choices (and there are circumstances that I did not and will not elaborate on). My point is that once we become taxpayers, we buy in, as citizens, to the administration of policies that we hope will better the lives of other citizens. We could go from house to house of people on food stamps and beat them up for buying soda or Tastycakes, but that's not going to happen. If you don't like the policy, vote the people who voted for it out of office.

---

For the record: I am defending your son. He sounds like a good guy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ultralight

For the record: I am defending your son. He sounds like a good guy.

---

Thank you. I think you'd like him and vice versa.

It is easy to means test. A multiple of the Federal poverty level is commonly used, which takes into account family size and the fact that children benefit society. Countries with birthrates below death rates suffer economically unless they have significant immigration. Some countries give a child allowance to all parents to encourage procreation. My grandmother got this for her kids in underpopulated rural Saskatchewan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yppej

It is easy to means test. A multiple of the Federal poverty level is commonly used, which takes into account family size and the fact that children benefit society.

---

Hmmm... you don't know much about the PSLF program do you? Man, I just keep taking you to school! LOL Maybe you should call me professor.

The PSLF program already does this type of thing. Catherine's 3rd son, because he makes a very low salary and is married with kids, probably pays little to nothing each month. The lower your salary the less you pay in the PSLF program. The higher your salary, the more you pay. For instance, since I went from making $50,000 to making $58,500 I will have to pay more each month.

If you have kids and you make very little salary you can literally make $0 payments each month for ten years and have the entirety of your loan and interest forgiven.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yppej

Countries with birthrates below death rates suffer economically unless they have significant immigration.

---

What does this have to do with this discussion?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yppej

Some countries give a child allowance to all parents to encourage procreation.

---

What does this have to do with this discussion?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yppej

My grandmother got this for her kids in underpopulated rural Saskatchewan.

---

It feels like you are changing the subject because you realize how badly you keep losing this argument but you are afraid to admit that and simply update your beliefs about the PSLF program and about me.

Also: You don't answer any of my questions to you because you know I have you trapped into looking foolish because your ideas on this topic are utterly foolish.

You have bashed Catherine's son and numerous other people for having children you think they cannot afford. You do not recognize the benefits of children to society.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yppej

You have bashed Catherine's son and numerous other people for having children you think they cannot afford.

---

You are lying. I defended him. I even told Catherine I was defending him. And I will continue to defend people like him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yppej

You do not recognize the benefits of children to society.

---

You are really feeling the squeeze, huh? The constricting feeling of being caught in your own bad idea that you just won't disavow.

This is why you are afraid to actually address my points and answer my questions.

At least Teacher Terry bowed out of this conversation. I can respect that.

You keep flailing and flopping around, uninformed, seemingly incapable of making a coherent point.

Jeppy, your passive-aggressiveness has the watermark of a powerless person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yppej

You have bashed Catherine's son and numerous other people for having children you think they cannot afford. You do not recognize the benefits of children to society.

---

Hey Jeppy, I thought more about this comment of yours. What is really striking is how much it reveals about you.

Just go above and read my statements of support for Catherine's son. Read her responses.

It is also obvious how you are trying to do that very passive-aggressive thing where you try to turn others against me with your little lies. Again, the watermark of a powerless person.

And the way you are relentlessly moving away from the topic that you originally tried to put front and center because you realized how wrong you are.

What really dawned on me this morning is that the reason you lie and are passive-aggressive and why you have this creepy obsession with me is that you are probably mentally ill or possibly emotionally sick in some way. Maybe you had a really bad romance with a man decades ago and it left you so psychologically damaged or maybe you just have some kind of mental illness from genetics. I don't know what the cause is, but after trouncing you in this argument over and over and over I started to feel like sad for you, like pity. Yes, I felt pity for you.

So look, say whatever you want about me. Say whatever you want about the PSLF program. If that opens up the valve and releases steam for you -- great! Maybe it keeps you from losing it mentally/emotionally and doing something potentially dangerous.

Once I realized this about you, I just don't feel right about arguing with you anymore. It doesn't feel ethical for me to argue this way with someone who has some sort of mental/emotional condition that makes them say and behave in anti-social, creepy, obsessive ways.

So when you insult me or start grinding your ax against me in the future, I am simply going to wish you well. Because I do wish you well and I hope you can eventually overcome whatever mental/emotional condition you have.

Take care.

Gee, that is a whole lotta speculation about yppej’s mental status. I wouldnt take that to the bank.

But by all means, stop Responding to her, UL, for whatever reason because that would be a good thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iris lilies

Gee, that is a whole lotta speculation about yppej’s mental status. I wouldnt take that to the bank.

But by all means, stop Responding to her, UL, for whatever reason because that would be a good thing.

---

Yes, it is speculation. I am not and did not try to diagnose her with anything specific. But her behaviors I noted in there -- accurate! The passive-aggressiveness, the creepy obsession with me, etc. But I could have said:

"Jeppy, you seem like a mentally and/or emotionally unstable person. So I feel bad for you and don't intend to argue with you anymore."

My relationships: husband, his family, friends and neighbors. The beautiful place I live. The work I've done emotionally. In short, where I am, now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NewGig

My relationships: husband, his family, friends and neighbors. The beautiful place I live. The work I've done emotionally. In short, where I am, now.

---

Thank you for getting this train back on track :)

Quote:

---

I am not and did not try to diagnose her with anything specific. But her behaviors I noted in there -- accurate! The passive-aggressiveness, the creepy obsession with me, etc. But I could have said:

---

How is continuing to argue the same points with the same person over and over and over for many months not also a creepy obsession?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by herbgeek

How is continuing to argue the same points with the same person over and over and over for many months not also a creepy obsession?

---

Again, Jeppy pokes me and that is cool, right? But I poke back and it is some heresy? Come on.

Quote:

---

Again, Jeppy pokes me and that is cool, right? But I poke back and it is some heresy? Come on.

---

My point being that you call her engaging with you a "creeepy obsession" but you also do the same thing back. You could choose to not engage. But you don't. Not sure why. I think she is being petty and passive aggressive, but your behavior is not much better.

Then when Jeppy harshed the mellow of this cool thread, no one said anything to her. When she insulted my character on here, no one said anything to her. So I figured I had a right to argue back. Is that not accurate?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by herbgeek

My point being that you call her engaging with you a "creeepy obsession" but you also do the same thing back. You could choose to not engage. But you don't. Not sure why. I think she is being petty and passive aggressive, but your behavior is not much better.

---

So why are you not vocally criticizing her? Instead, you come after me for arguing back at her, literally in defense of my own character which she attacked.
Makes perfect sense.

Herbgeek, also, let this be known. I have no idea if you are male or female or how you self-identify. But I am arguing with you and picking apart your critical posts of me. Why? Because I disagree with you. See how that works?

Arguing with a pig is like wallowing in the mud. Both get dirty but the pig enjoys it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry

Arguing with a pig is like wallowing in the mud. Both get dirty but the pig enjoys it.

---

That pretty much sums it up.

In keeping with the pig metaphor, can PLSF be considered pork barrel politics?

Quote:

---

In keeping with the pig metaphor, can PLSF be considered pork barrel politics?

---

no it's a very narrow program that in no real way can be considered pork barrel politics I don't think. Universal student loan forgiveness would be a form of pandering (not actually universal of course as not everyone has student loans) but even then that's not the definition of pork barrel politics.

And pork barrel politics is better than what we have now anyway. It's "you vote for a bridge in my district and I'll vote for a highway in yours", possibly wasteful but at least ALLOWING some sensible legislation if the right trades were made. Now we can't even pass an infrastructure bill. We have hard partisanship (not ideology as only a few really seem to have principles, so much as just raw partisanship) plus extreme corporate influence. It's a mess.

This has been a tough one for me to answer as I initially had no clue. Now I think that the top three things definitely change as time and as I change. But right now, I think my top three are:

1- my family - both immediate, extended and dragged in (lol) and my friends - new and old
2- actually living and behaving in a manner consistent with my spiritual beliefs as often as possible
3- being kind to others. I often forget that I am not so busy that I can't go out and help my elderly neighbor bring in her groceries or call the recent widower down the street just to say "hi".

1-Learning constantly

2-My animals

3-Appreciating everything/everyone around me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yppej

It is not a punishment. It is the consequences of your choices. If this program did not exist would you claim you are being punished?

Get roommates or get a second or third job.

There are many, many people whose sole source of retirement income is Social Security.

It is sad if money is your only source of joy.

You feel as a college educated person you are entitled to a certain lifestyle now and in retirement. If you were doing it on your own fine, but you are not entitled to live above your means with subsidies from people less fortunate than you. Only a narcissist would have the entitlement mentality you have.

---

Okay, boomer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry

The average family of 4 in Nevada makes 48k/year. My husband used the GI bill after Vietnam plus worked to get his degrees. We paid cash for mine by working. Our vacations were driving to visit family. My kids had one real vacation driving to DC for a week. On some of my forums people with lots of money tweek their income to get maximum ACA credits. We spend a fourth of our yearly income before taxes for healthcare. Yyeppi, I totally understand resenting people that don’t have integrity. I do too but it’s legal. I can look at myself and not be ashamed. I think it has a lot to do with how you were raised. My parents were big on integrity and less on what you can get for free. I am grateful for the values that they passed down to us.

---

Okay, boomer.

I think $58,000+ is a nice salary, tho the State of Illinois will do everything they can to take it from you.

In Chicago, there is a moving tax.When you move from one place to another, tax ya!

my current 3 things giving my life meaning besides Dh is, as always,

1) creative endeavers with flowers, growing and using them

2) communing with bulldogs

3) community centered around old buildings and flowers

IL, is this the moving tax you are referring to: https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/ve...4-93e7d41c1325