The Oregonian:
"Outside the Justice Center on Sunday afternoon, members of the Portland Police Bureau took a knee in a show of solidarity with Black Lives Matter protesters." Video courtesy of Ryan Ao // AO Productions
Printable View
The Oregonian:
"Outside the Justice Center on Sunday afternoon, members of the Portland Police Bureau took a knee in a show of solidarity with Black Lives Matter protesters." Video courtesy of Ryan Ao // AO Productions
Arizona is now on a one week lockdown from 8 PM to 5 AM. Rumours of riots in downtown Phoenix and Tucson tonight have been spreading through my neighnorhood. This is not going to end well for anyone but attorneys. Rob
And I misquoted - it's a one week CURFEW, not a lockdown. My bad. Sorry. Rob
San Francisco and various other CA cities are as well. The outsiders ran around after the protests were over last night and set things on fire. Hopefully the goal is to be able to sweep up all these ne’er do wells and find out who they are, where they came from, and what their goals are.
Our protest in the Village today. Note all of the looting and violence.
Attachment 3242
Oh I think they mean well. I think they believe that shouting in the street and occasionally blocking traffic will make us better people. As long as they leave off the violence and arson, I see them as just another attraction in the big sideshow.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
As to the outside agitators thing, if all the violence in all the cities is being perpetrated by people from elsewhere, where is elsewhere exactly? Are provocateurs simply circulating around so nobody trashes their own home town?
I've wondered about that as well. The outside hooligan theory only makes sense if say the New York chapter of 'Evil White Racist Inc.' (™) is making mischief in Atlanta while the Atlanta chapter is busy in Chicago.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
I think "lone basement dweller radicalized by the Internet" makes more sense. I don't think we see vans of out-of-state agitators so much, at least here in Seattle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
In Seattle, people traveled to the protests from all over the state, presumably those folks might be considered "outside hooligans" if they stepped out of line, even if they had only come over from Bellevue.
As someone who belongs to a minority whose effort at obtaining civil rights got a major boost after a few days or protesting and rioting (and setting a few things on fire) 51 years ago I tend to take a different view. It's been years since anyone (at least anyone whose opinions have any level of mainstream acceptance today) has called the Stonewall protestors thugs or hooligans (or whatever was the fashionable term back in the 70's and 80's and 90's). And in fact, every year, on the anniversary of those riots, in cities across the country and around the world we celebrate those riots and what they accomplished with big parades. My biggest hope is that it doesn't take the current rioters 51 years to achieve their goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
Beautiful take! RobQuote:
Originally Posted by jp1
As for anyone who thought quarantine was hard, oh yea, I seem to remember things like TALKING A WALK being perfectly legal under quarantine (or any implemented in the U.S. anyway). Now I'm under curfew where that is illegal, as leaving one's house for any and all purposes is.
No I don't believe it will accomplish anything or anything positive anyway.
But they’ve been already been rioting for racial justice for 50+ years.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
All the more sad that they’ve failed to get people to care. Maybe this time enough shit will get burned down that they will succeed. Although I’m not holding my breath.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
The issue with Unions is they have to protect all their members. Innocent or guilty, or in one union I know, protect a member, whose goal it was, to be the worst person in the union. (not law enforcement)Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
Their job is very much like a lawyers.
The case you mention above, while that is one I am watching for information on (court takes time), I don't remember all the rioting and destruction in the street from it!
Saw this meme, and remembering the saying, the best humor, has an element of truth to it:
Attachment 3243
so now there is plans for a protest (possibly a riot) where my bf lives, the area is apolitical, so apolitical it makes you bemoan how little they care about politics, so it would be the first political interest they have ever shown there. But the agitators aren't local to the area, it's not a wealthy area, it's not even middle class, but not the poorest of the poor either. It's probably at least half Hispanic, many of them illegal immigrants. So yea great choice. >8)
Admittedly, it's been several years, but as I visited Seattle often at that time, there seemed to me to be a pretty clear line drawn between Seattleites and people from Bellevue. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
I guess female victims don't count. Figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToomuchStuff
Is that a local ordinance? Because I know a lot of Angelenos are walking and hiking, as are people in Oregon, and around here every evening. Walking is the new exercise craze with a lot of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
Many localities have put into place a curfew during these rioting times.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
Ah--so for a few days, and at night. Gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Treat everyone as I'd like to be treated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geila
Push for police accountability. Better yet--push for agencies to seek out recruits with character. Elect officials with the same goal.
Thinking more about gay rioting I'm reminded of the second major gay riot that occurred on American soil, the White Night Riot in San Francisco in May of 1979. They didn't occur because Harvey Milk and George Moscone had been killed. At the time of their deaths there was just a peaceful vigil. On the night of the riot we damaged, and unsuccessfully attempted to set fire to, city hall and set a dozen police cars ablaze. The riot occurred after Dan White received an absurdly lenient sentence for the murders. If justice had been served there wouldn't have been a riot. There's really not much difference between the cause of the White Night Riot and the cause of the riots happening today, except that the rioters today have experienced not one injustice, but regular injustice, time after time after time.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
The "Twinkie defense." I remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
If everyone took that primitive attitude, think of the damage it would do. Whole political movements, bodies of law, corporate departments, government agencies, academic disciplines and industries would be destroyed. If we based our obligations to one another on one individual to another rather than the identities assigned to us by credentialed specialists, we wouldn’t be the enlightened society we are today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
But unfortunately not everyone does. And as a result we now have a dead man and a whole lot of really angry people.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
I find this horrifying. That was a jury trial. So are you saying if a jury returns an unfair verdict it is okay to set fire to public buildings and property? Is it okay to go torch the jurors' houses--after all, they returned the verdict you didn't like. Is it okay to endanger their lives? Is it okay to take the lives of someone standing nearby when the police car explodes? Is this really what you mean to say?Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
All I'm saying is that when injustice happens people get angry. That's just part of the human condition. Anyone who doesn't understand that is doomed to see it happen again and again. One of the aftereffects of the White Night Riot is that California got rid of the "diminished capacity" law that had allowed White to get off with an absurdly light sentence.
The solution is not to vilify the rightfully angry rioters. Or to get all hand-wringy about property damage. The value of the damaged property pales in comparison to the lost lives. The solution is to make changes to society so that they have no reason to get angry again in the future.
So, the takeaway is don't piss JP off?Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
If that's your takeaway I guess we'll continue to have riots from time to time as the more egregious wrongs continue to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Why, what have I done? I think it's perfectly reasonable to not condone rioting and violence as fervently as not condoning whatever sparked them.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
I took a sociology class in college called Minority Groups. The professor pointed out that until a pedestrian or two are killed, nothing much is done about problematic intersections, no matter how much hue and cry they inspire. After the bodies start piling up, a stop sign or signal light is installed, and the problem goes away. In the same way, nothing much is done to ease legitimate minority tensions until the aggrieved crowd gets so fed up--another of their community is killed by police, say--they riot and burn a building or two. Then, a nervous establishment vows to make systemic changes. And sometimes they do.
B.S. Do damage to others that did nothing to you? I can see peaceful protest but this destroying property and now whole neighborhoods complete bullsh$t! That does nothing but cause terror and erode society.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
I see the record of it making political changes as far more half empty than all that, I mean I don't know if you could point to it doing so in 40 years and there have been protests and riots. I suppose this time could be different. Electoral politics not working out so well lately either? Well yea not in the last 40 years either.
And though it could happen the establishment no matter how blue has not vowed to make political changes, at all.
This country has a history of violent rebellion; that's how we got here.
As Martin Luther King Jr said "A riot is the language of the unheard."
At the end of the day we as a society have two choices. We can either continue to not listen and not make the systemic changes that will help solve the injustice faced by minorities in their dealings with police and continue to have riots from time to time, or we can actually listen, and work to fix the injustices and thus eliminate the reason that the riots keep occurring. Complaining that people shouldn't riot is not a particularly useful strategy. People whose loved ones are dying are not inclined to care what you think they should or shouldn't do in response to those deaths. They just want the deaths to stop and if a riot is the only way to get society's attention then that's what will happen.
of course more people's loved one's are going to die because covid.
That Alan. Such a subversive.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
I’ve donated to the ACLU and black lives matter this week. I’m too scared to join the protesters nonviolent marches. Both scared of covid and scared of the violent few joining us. I admit that. But I give money. I do what I can.
I’ve got a 6 year old biracial grandson. His life matters.
Yea well, I'm not so sanguine about it for the rest of us either. But I really don't even think you going out risking covid would be the right thing to do, given your work with vulnerable patients, I guess you could test constantly*Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammy
* which is more than most non-medical people can even do now given publicly available covid testing ITSELF has been shut down some because of this :0!