Self-employment Support?

Kelli, I have this page bookmarked and I go there and re-read it every time I start to micro-analyze all the reasons why I can't do something:
http://www.chrisbrogan.com/106/

It's pretty rough truth, and a lot of it might not be relevant to you, but I find that when I'm in a slump, I re-read this and usually come up with one thing I can do in the evening that moves my goal forward, just by that extra little boost.

I am always doing the same thing you are, by the way, meaning putting a little effort every day into self-employment. The only difference is instead of my first venture I'm on my 3rd or 4th, but the mental morass is the same.

I also love this guy's emails and his book, which has a great 1-2-3 section on earning your first bucks as a happily self-employed person: http://screwworkletsplay.com

Cutting expenses and eliminating all debt aside from my mortgage was the first step for me in taking off on my own, so you're ahead of the curve! I also made sure that my capital outlay for the new business was minimal (easy in my field) and that I kept my day job while I started up my own business. There were a couple of busy months there, but it was so worth it.

My first clients got a real bargain (not free but close to it!), but I made sure my service was so great for them that they referred me to others, who referred me to others, and off it went. I've never really had to market my business very much, aside from a web page and a stack of business cards. I know you can do whatever you put your mind to!

Your goal might feel different because you're not 99% in control of it like FI3 -- you have your intended customers' reactions to think of. Will they buy what you're selling? I think you have the talent to make any service compelling as long as there is a market for it. Talk to some people and ask them point-blank: Would they "buy" this? What would they most like you to offer? How much (range) might they be willing to pay? You can get a lot of answers just by speaking to the people you want to serve.

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Originally Posted by fidgiegirl

LiS, we must have been doing a simul-post. :) And I am never tired of your ramblings. And yes, I do fidget a lot. :)

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;)

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You know, when I first read YMOYL and decided that I WOULD get out of debt, people around me pooh-poohed it. They tried to convince me it was part of life, and just to stuff it away and try to be happy with it. But I wasn't. It was a weight on me. And I stuck with my guns, and within four years I was debt free. $30K in four years, and during two of those I was making not so very much. I didn't know how long it would take but I plugged away at it and it is quite amazing what focus will result in.

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Good for you! Continue to be convinced of your own unique coolness, and ignore others who might drag you down :+1:

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I also really look forward to getting my hands on the Jaeger book you recommended. I feel like that's where I'm at - drudgery! At least my job isn't a HSSJ - like I said, lots of good things going on - but still . . .

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Yeah, I re-read parts of that book every once and a while, to re-focus. It's on my bookshelf of Favorites

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Originally Posted by Zoebird

A book that really changed my life was The Two Income Trap. This talked about making sure that your fixed expenses were on one income. Then, secondary income is just there for support in case something happens to the primary income.

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That book has a big impact for me, too. We have always tried to follow that advice in the years when we had two incomes.

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Originally Posted by fidgiegirl

How did you "know?" Do you mean in the self-confidence sense, or in the market research sense?

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It was a combination of both. I'll ramble a bit.

Self Confidence

When I started working for myself, it was a part time endeavor and I didn't know a lot about how to administrate a business. My biggest problem wasn't what I did well -- ie, actual teaching of yoga classes -- but all of the things needed to support that process. I wasn't doing my accounting well, I wasn't marketing well (or consistently). I wasn't providing a safe, consistent business so that people felt comfortable "investing" in things like workshops, class cards, etc. I wasn't doing the "business" side of the business.

I didn't know this. I only knew that 'whatever i was doing wasn't working' and that made me scared to go ut on my own. I did anyway and failed the first go (luckily only loosing $10k), but what I learned is that I required more discipline in the administration aspects. Well, I ultimately learned that. It wasn't exactly linear!

The reality is that I knew what I had to do (in most cases. in some cases I didn't), but I didn't have the personal discipline to actually *do* those things. I was immature, in a way. So, once I decided that I *wanted* to take on that discipline in order to get the benefits of that discipline, THEN i felt like "yes, of course I can do this!"

And what I learned in starting small (ie, I was still running my small business of teachign classes, so I rented a room for $25/class and then took in money from clients and marketed, etc -- I ran it like a business with spread sheets, marketing processes, branding, etc), I then built up the confidence in doing big. And when I felt confident with those processes, I just kept building on it. I started with one class, then two, then three, then workshops, and so on -- each one was "big-ifying" my business in a step-by-step process so that I could learn how to take risks (and/or how risk adverse I was, etc).

So, at a confidence level, the fear was whether or not I could discipline myself to do what the business required beyond the teaching. Once I discovered that I could, in fact, be disciplined enough to do it, then I knew that I had the confidence to go forward.

Market Research

Part of the success of my business was the market research. I've grown so much faster than I expected because instead of looking outward "what are other people in my industry doing?" I started looking inward. "What do I want? What do I want to do?"

I started to look at the "problem" of yoga studios: expensive classes; culture of excess; pressure to buy more classes; classes too long for a busy person to get to; too religious; too feminine focused; poor alignment/weird (or focus on choreography over physical therapeutics), and a myriad of other complaints that I'd had over the years.

THen I started to look at how I could be different -- what was I offering and how was I offering it so that it would be affordable, accessible, therapeutic, open-to-everyone, and non-pressured. I started to swim around a group of 3-4 core values -- which could be not only in my classes themselves but in my business practices as well (how to interface as a business, interface with coworkers, people whom I manage, contractors (like the guys who do our web design), etc). This was the firm foundation on which my business was built.

Then I had to find the location. I knew it wasn't where I lived. I learned that I could buy a business (all of this happened in very quick succession). We identified 5 places in the world. We'd really loved Wellington. I looked for a business in Wellington.

I found one for sale super-cheap, and I started to do the market research. Where was it located in Wellington? Who were my primary competitors (yoga studios, health centers, gyms)? How did they do things (local culture around these things -- so that I knew whether or not what I was doing was different or the same and how)?

From there, I identified the market and looked for how to market to them specifically and effectively. I knew my process (as a teacher) were top quality, so I knew that if i could get them through the door, I could get them to stay.

Finances

Another thing that scares people is whether or not they can finance something long enough to get the return on investment. This is the big mistake that most people make. It takes more than 6 months. It takes *years* -- and if you are going to cash out and just work a business (no outside support), then you need to have enough to support yourself for years.

Yes, you might get extremely lucky like we did and hit everything spot on and get sustainable in two or three years. But most businesses take five to get to sustainable. It just depends.

The better way to start it is to learn how to run a business and fine tune what you offer (and therefore who your clients are -- who your market is and what they respond to in terms of marketing and product/service), while you are supported on another income. The only pitfall to this is that you may not be as disciplined or work as hard because you're not taking a big risk. It just depends upon you though. Some people don't need the big risk to work hard and be disciplined -- but in my experience, most people do.

And, you know, i find it helpful to know that i could finance my business entirely (no debt -- well, the debt to myself) and then make it sustainable and make a living at it. That gave me enough security to move forward, but not so much that I felt comfortable with "biff-ing" (abandoning, failing, not being disciplined, etc).

So, yeah.

Thanks for all your advice, everyone. I read the Chris Brogan post, yeah, some of those sum me up! :) Zoebird, I also thank you for your experience and perspective. When I envision our businesses, I always see them developing as "businesses" rather than "a business." I wonder if that's under the influence of what I've read - mainly have latched onto Making a Living Without a Job as my inspiration so far - or if that's what I crave in leaving employment - not so much of the doing of one thing for most of the time. We have been keeping track of our business ideas for about two years now and have a very healthy list. Some are more passive kinds of ideas, and some more actively managed ideas. We'll see how it goes!

So I have been toying with sharing our goal with some friends, in order to put it out there more, make it more real, tie some kind of accountability to it. And with both groups that I told, both groups immediately wanted to know HOW. But we're not there yet. So the second group wanted to know this, and I said, well, we don't know yet, we have some ideas but we're speaking our goal so that it's out there. Without the goal we'll never get there. And so then they wanted to know some of the ideas on the list and I couldn't conjure any of them! Funny, there are about 50 ideas on there! So I don't know if it is really because I truly couldn't remember or if stating the goal was already bold enough and I couldn't stand to put out the ideas themselves and have them be in any way discouraged, so they wouldn't materialize in order to be spoken - yet.

I honestly, don't know what you are talking about. :)

First, the difference between a job-business and a business-business is that the second one ultimately doesn't need you -- it becomes passive income. Essentially, you just 'manage' the business (which is the administrative work and could be, for example, just 4 hrs a week for a given business). And, you can sell it to another person, etc, with relative ease.

My business is a combination active (job) and passive (administrative). The ultimate goal is to make it largely administrative (licensing, franchising), and providing the space for me to do work that I love (active/job -- teaching yoga). Then, I can decide how much I want to do my "job." Right now, it's mostly job and some administrative. But, in the future (and to an extent already), it's switching over. :D

Second, I don't really know what you mean about whatever you want to do as businesses vs job in terms of a list or how you are going to do it, etc. I think you are right to speak to your goal, but there are times when it's best to keep things close to the vest. The reality is that most people who are not self employed have no concept of it and will poo-poo your process. I think you've already experienced that to an extent, right?

So, your best bet is to keep it to a place like this -- and we can start putting ideas toward you or saying "ooh, that sounds good" or "are you planning on having it look like this or like that?" (in terms of business models, for example).

I would be interested in your list of ideas, just to see what you're thinking about doing and how you think it will work toward your goals. :)

Well now I'm confused too! :D

In terms of ideas, they tend to fall into the following broad categories:
- websites
- blogs
- ebooks
- various forms of rental properties
- events like crafting retreats, craft shows
- personal services like tutoring or coaching on ed tech stuff
- various forms of online commerce, but man, there is so much out there already going on . . . not sure if it ends up being a "play WITH the big boys" effect or a "play AGAINST the big boys" battle. Merits further research.

I am starting to wonder if I shouldn't start taking some coding classes to start building up some of the websites. That seems like something I could handle while still working. Not sure where to start on that, though. For example, one of them is a searchable database of language learning opportunities in the Twin Cities area. The schools/programs would pay an advertising fee to be included and there would be tiers of advertising. So to build this, where people could search by geographic location, style of program, age of student, etc., what would be the best kind of class to take? I have no training in coding. I could see taking a Coursera class or something like that as I am not concerned with getting credit/credential, I just have no idea which language is the one to start with. Ideas on this one? I hate to pay someone to do this work for me because I don't want to outlay the cash up front, plus want to build this skill for future ideas that might come along. That is just one of the website ideas.

I think we want to acquire more rentals but plan to wait at least a year to build up our rental account further and also we think (need to reconfirm this) that after two years of landlording banks are willing to lend against future potential income from the property. Still need 20% down on any property, however.

Well, those are pretty vague, but i'll throw in a dime or two.

First, a lot of them are job-based -- web site building, ebooks (content creation), blogs (content creation), and personal services (tutoring/coaching) are all "you based" -- you would be doing the job for the client. Therefore, if you were hit by a bus, the business is kaput.

So, that's how I look at business: can this exist if I get hit by a bus?

By the end of this year, my studio would "live" if I got hit by a bus. It's insured to pay those teachers who would need to be paid, and bring in an expert from australia for a few months to complete their training. From there, someone would be trained up to manage the teachers, and there's a plan in place for that as well, and then to pay that manager. The insurance that covers me in the business is designed to cover those costs.

It's like a model insuring her legs, yes?

The other three look more passive: rental properties, e-commerce, and event planning. two of these are basically renting time/space. Administrating them is dependent on a lot of factors -- that is, you can decide how hands on or hands off you want to be (which will depend upon the capital that you have to invest).

Beyond this, I'm curious in two ways:

1. these are very 'vague' -- what do you mean by web sites? what sort of ebooks are you considering developing for what audiences? what will the blogs be about? what commerce will you e?

The real estate, tutoring, and craft events seem like the only three that have a clear idea, and these are rather vague as well. Not that you have to give me all of the details, btu there are lots of kinds of "web site" businesses.

2. what experience do you have with these things? what is your background (educational, professional, hobby or otherwise), that would set you up for successfully transitioning these things into viable businesses that meet your financial goals?

Finally, what work are you doing *daily* to move you forward? I feel like you have lots of ideas, but no direction, and no clear understanding of how to get direction. Like, the person who has a lot of great ideas but they never really *act* on those ideas.

I have a friend who is starting a business (again) and this one is just as destined to fail as any other. WHy? because it's a vague idea "I'm going to give psychic readings/coaching" (btw, she's good and experienced, even if you don't believe in psychic readings, a lot of people do). and when I try to help her pin down her actual service, how it works, to whom to market, how, etc -- she gets a bit spooked, goes off half-cocked, and ends up spending a lot and earning a little and theng etting depressed.

most busineses fail due to three things: 1. lack of clarity from the onset; 2. lack of planning; and 3. lack of follow through. You have to have all three. So far, I dont really think you have clarity. You need clarity to plan, and then a plan on which to follow-through.

Just my thoughts so far.

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Originally Posted by fidgiegirl

Well now I'm confused too! :D

In terms of ideas, they tend to fall into the following broad categories:
- websites
- blogs
- ebooks
- various forms of rental properties
- events like crafting retreats, craft shows
- personal services like tutoring or coaching on ed tech stuff
- various forms of online commerce, but man, there is so much out there already going on . . . not sure if it ends up being a "play WITH the big boys" effect or a "play AGAINST the big boys" battle. Merits further research.

I am starting to wonder if I shouldn't start taking some coding classes to start building up some of the websites. That seems like something I could handle while still working. Not sure where to start on that, though. For example, one of them is a searchable database of language learning opportunities in the Twin Cities area. The schools/programs would pay an advertising fee to be included and there would be tiers of advertising. So to build this, where people could search by geographic location, style of program, age of student, etc., what would be the best kind of class to take? I have no training in coding. I could see taking a Coursera class or something like that as I am not concerned with getting credit/credential, I just have no idea which language is the one to start with. Ideas on this one? I hate to pay someone to do this work for me because I don't want to outlay the cash up front, plus want to build this skill for future ideas that might come along. That is just one of the website ideas.

I think we want to acquire more rentals but plan to wait at least a year to build up our rental account further and also we think (need to reconfirm this) that after two years of landlording banks are willing to lend against future potential income from the property. Still need 20% down on any property, however.

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I think a specialized directory in your field is a great idea. I have had an online directory that I haven't had time to keep up to date in favor of other projects, but in its hey day it did quite well. Once a directory is set up and ranking it can almost be semi-passive income except for marketing it, getting links and keeping the content updated.

If you can make something you write or create once, as in intellectual property, and then sell or display it to customers a million times over, you have a great source of almost passive income in future years. These days it helps to do something that can't be outsourced to coders in a third world country with third world contract rates, so a site that requires specialized knowledge of your area would be good. The thing you would have to check into would be is this something enough people in your area search for online to be profitable, or can you scale your content to include other cities?

Well, it's not exactly easy to create content, and then from there, to sell it so that it has a long tail. I have made several little yoga videos and recordings over the years, which have brought in regular income -- but it's about $60 a quarter. So, it's not like just because you have intellectual property you're going to be raking it in. Marketing it is a huge part of it, too. I don't market those videos/things, they were mostly for my clients.

But anyway. . .

Also, choose something that you're truly, truly passionate about. You're going to need it to have the staying power to get it *all* done and be successful. :)

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. Try2bfrugal, what do you think is a good place to start learning how to code to build such a directory? I can put up a website that is static using tools like Weebly and make it look pretty good, but not sure how to make a searchable one. Any advice welcome. I had also thought about the expansion possibilities. Another directory style idea I had is to do a searchable site for GF restaurants. San Diego area had one and it was immensely helpful when we went there, but it was still pretty basic. Twin Cities doesn't really have anything apart from some lists of restaurants.

Zoeb, here's where I think I didn't make myself clear earlier in the discussion. I am not interested in a single big huge business. Don't get me wrong, I think your business and your success at it is interesting, inspiring, etc., but it's not the model I'm aiming for for us. The thought of that doesn't sound doable to me at all, for many of the reasons you discussed - lots of ideas, etc. (which of course, isn't at all to say that YOU are not a person with lots of ideas. I think you are great. :) ) I have come to see myself as a scanner or multipotentialite (thanks to much readings of Barbara Winter, Barbara Sher, blogs like Puttylike, etc.) and am still understanding all of what that means. That doesn't mean I'm flighty, or won't follow through/act. I'm still gaining clarity on all my different ideas and how different profit centers would even fit in our lives - that's why I'm here trying to hash these things out, and that's ok. :)

Let's stick with one idea right now, maybe. I can't bring myself to clearly describe all fifty that I have, not ONE of which I would want to be a whole entire big huge singular business. Perhaps a combination of half a dozen of them or so, or more or fewer, depending on when. :) That may have been why in order to convey that "I have lots of ideas! Look!" they came off as vague, when really, under the website category I have about six different models in mind and have thought through many aspects of each.

Barbara Winter makes this metaphor in her book Making a Living Without a Job, page 115:

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Chase Revel, the founder of Entrepreneur magazine, pointed out that it's easier to earn $1000 a month fro ten little businesses than it is to earn $10,000 a month from one big source. I thi of creating profit centers as being akin to what a juggler does when spinning plates on top of sticks. The juggler walks out on the stage with ten sticks and ten plates but doesn't begin spinning them all at once. Methodically, he of she positions the first plate on a stick and gets it into motion. Once done, the juggler moves on to the next, and the next, and so forth. Eventually, all ten of the plates are spinning away, each with its own momentum.

Your success can be created in a similar fashion. You can't produce a lineup of profit centers in a single effort. Follow the juggler's example. Take your first idea, get it started, stay with it until it develops its own momentum, then go on to your next idea, and so on. And, yes, some of your plates will fall on the floor and shatter. Do what the juggler does - pick up another plate and start spinning!

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So at least I'm clear on that much. :)

So, the foreign language directory. First, there is no good site to locate this information all in one place. People, especially parents and other teachers, frequently ask me if I know of tutors or classes, particularly in Spanish, for their kids or themselves. And so in researching these offerings in order to help my friends and acquaintances, I've come to realize there are tremendous offerings of many different language classes in our area, some through public schools or community education organizations, some through private institutions, and some through individuals. So then I started thinking of how I could compile all that into a single location that would be easy to use and professional looking. I know what I'd want the final product to look like - searchable by text input or drop-down menus as well as by map. Perhaps there can be a basic, free listing, and then a swanky, paid listing option with graphics and/or special offers. I'd want there to be a free listing because I think part of the success of the site will be if there are many, many options to find. I might even have to do some of the listings myself in the beginning, at least links to webpages of existing programs I happen to know about. I want it to be a site with a catchy enough name where two dads can be chatting - one about how he wants little Billy to start taking preschool Spanish and the other can say, "Oh! I heard about a site for that, it's _______ and they have all kinds of ideas." Language classes for kids will be the initial focus, and I can advertise through Google or FB ads and other social media, something I've been learning about and toying with for "advertising myself," so to speak, last year when looking for a job.

So for this particular idea, I know I need to document this plan in some sort of organized fashion because I'm sure I haven't thought of everything, and I run up against the business plan wall. Puglogic had posted a good one page business plan template earlier in the thread, maybe I should go find that. Because a multi-page, hugely involved business plan will kill me. I can do one, and I know I need to cover all the bases, but simpler would be better. Not cutting corners, just the basics for a first try. Just like I have done with other successful multi-step projects in my past, I need to write out all the steps and begin proceeding.

Still trying to figure out what that coding step will look like, or maybe I don't even need to learn a coding language. Not even sure where to start looking to figure this out. I'll ask a friend at work this week, and also hope that someone here has some ideas.

I feel like I'm hogging up this whole thread now. Sorry!!

fidgie it's your thread, you can hog it all you like!

I like your idea of directory for language learning opportunities. I might approach the technology of it by paying pros to design it and then you learn how to maintain it with updates, adds & deletions, etc. I don't know about the technology of building databases delivered through the web, but in my world we use a lot of expensive databases that one does NOT access for free ('cause the content and technology costs $$$ to build) and --let's just say there is a wide range in quality of these products.

As for the "business plan" sure you've got to have one but if you are self funding as I'm sure you will be, you don't need a formal document to present to a bank for a loan. I've seen a number of friends do those over the years and they go no where. The one page business plan is very cool. Long formal business plan documents tend to be academic exercises.

Very cool idea--and because you are in education you know that money for promoting service is lean or non-existent from many educational places, so that will be one hurdle to get over. They will want you to do it for free, and your idea of a simple free listing is good because you really WILL have to be The Go To Place on the web for language learning opportunities. This is a great idea because if it takes off in the Twin Cities it can be cloned for other geographic places and using the same technology.

The most recent experience I've had with this kind of concept was just last week when I investigated a directory/database of media contacts. At one time a local public relations firm published an annual directory (in printed form) of media contacts, divided into sections such as radio, tv, daily/weekly/monthly print publications. The directory listed contact names phone numbers and address, publishing deadlines, web urls. They would issue occasional updates through page replacements. The subscription was several hundred dollars a year.

Then about 8 years ago it moved to a subscription database form, where the buyers purchased access to it, delivered through the web and accessed via password. Now it doesn't seem to exist as a standalone web product. Since the local Press Club has a password-accessed "Media Directory" I'm guessing that the Press Club took it over. I'm not sure who is making money on it now, someone has to be paid to update it, but that might be a part time clerical type person.

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Originally Posted by fidgiegirl

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. Try2bfrugal, what do you think is a good place to start learning how to code to build such a directory? I can put up a website that is static using tools like Weebly and make it look pretty good, but not sure how to make a searchable one. Any advice welcome.

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I just have a plain HTML directory, but it is old, no longer gets much traffic and needs to be rewritten. So I do not know if one was starting out today the best software choice. I would just look at what other top ranked directories are using. You don't have to be innovative on the software - use the "the good artists copy, great artists steal" idea. I don't mean to violate anyone's copyright, just use the same basic ideas and whatever software platforms are popular for directories ranking well today. It is also easier if you go after low competition / high potential earnings terms. You might want to read the book the Long Tail if you have not read it yet.

The thing with Internet sites is they are cheap to put up if you do the work yourself. The people I see fail are the ones that order the marketing T-shirts and coffee mugs with the company name before they have ever even figured out how to put up a free blog that makes $1 a week. If you can figure out how to make a blog, site or directory that makes $1 a day, then expand on that site or lather, rinse, repeat. You can support yourself on $1 a day sites if you have enough of them in proportion to your annual expenses. Then if your income isn't tied to a major job market, you can move to a low cost of living area and lower your expenses quite a bit, so you don't have to make as much to have the same basic lifestyle and eventually be FI. Plus with being self employed you may be able to deduct some of your current expenses like a home office, work related journals, Internet cable costs, health insurance premiums, etc. so your taxes might be lower. Even if you never are self supporting in your side business, the extra income, if you have the time, will still help you to reach your FI goals faster.

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Originally Posted by fidgiegirl

Still trying to figure out what that coding step will look like, or maybe I don't even need to learn a coding language. Not even sure where to start looking to figure this out.

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Kelli, I don't remember who hosts your blogs, but they may already have a couple of choices as part of their hosting plans. My hosting is through lunarpages and they offer both MySQL and PostgreSQL as database engines you can use with other software (or to roll your own). It might be worth checking out WordPress, too, to see if anyone offers database extensions or hooks to engines like MySQL (likely).

My suggestion, though, is that you take a good look at the already-invented wheels, though, before you choose to build your own. There are many many Web sites that offer a collection of resources/external URLs to visitors. They may not cover language classes in the Twin Cities (great for you!). But it's the content and some superficial stuff (colors, fonts) which will make your site different, not the concept. You might want to look at some Web sites you've found helpful in the past (like that California GF restaurant database), View Source in your browser, and see what they're using for their databases (you can search the Web for the info you find in comment boxes). Secure the template (many are free) and start building the data. Frankly, keeping that data up to date will take plenty of time on its own; you likely do not want to chew into site-maintenance time lovingly hand-crafting all kinds of code or even severely customizing existing templates beyond field names, etc.

Take it from someone who worked at a large company that insisted that major software programs couldn't possibly reflect the unique widgets we made for a breathless world: a widget is a widget. We spent a lot of time customizing and then re-customizing software because we'd painted ourselves into a corner with our unique view of the world. Don't do that. There are plenty of open-source tools out there and many templates which will let you minimize the time you spend customizing and give you more time to work on the information of value -- the content.

I agree about using open-source tools as much as possible, so that you don't have to craft and recraft the coding as you go. It takes a lot of time, all of that.

And I do think it's a great idea, the question is -- how is it amortized? Do businesses pay for marketing? Do people join the subscription list for a fee? HOw does it work? to make money?

From there, how much money can it reasonably and realistically make, and how long will it take to get there before you can so easily "toss another plate in the air?"

And trust me, each of these things is a *big* business -- much bigger than you think it is. One of my friends is the director of one crafting event company. They run 3 events per year right now, and it's pretty much a full-time job. It in no-way supports her family (her husband has a job). Her kids are in school, so she works on it then, and then a bit on weekends. It's a lot of planning and marketing, those events.

Another friend of mine runs a blog that is modestly amortized (advertisers). I believe she's priced her advertisers out of the market (ie, a simple event listing is $50 for 30 days, whereas I can use other event listings for free with much better viewership and overall much greater impact in the market -- so I suggested she drop her price to $15 per month, and that more of us might give her business support. I don't mind tossing $15 in that direction to raise my profile, and those sorts of investments (at that price point) have worked well for me in the past in terms of attracting 1-3 people to something that cost them $125-140. So, great ROI.

Anyway, she works on that thing pretty much like a full time gig AND pays an assistant to work on it (via trade in yoga). The reality is that the blog basically makes no money, and that frustates and upsets her. She's been running it and trying to amortize it for over 5 years to no avail (though admittedly, she won't listen to successful people give her ideas, but whatever).

Another friend of mine runs a 'curated' etsy shop. Basically, she creates some material for it, but she also gathers jewelry that she likes from other people who make it. She hand picks things and markets them and so on. This way, it's not all on her to make every item (which makes it difficult, btw, to make any income because it takes a lot of time to design and hand-make jewelry, and so by having several people working for her, she basically "cosigns" all of their stuff, and when they sell, she gets a bit and they get a bit.

Luckily, her husband has a job, too, because otherwise they wouldn't eat. She's been doing this for about 4 years now, and the profit margin is slim. It mostly feeds her habit of loving to make jewelry.

There's nothing wrong with any of this -- but I'm just pointing out that *one* of these ideas can take *a lot* of a person's time and energy just to get it off the ground and earning some income. And, I suppose since each of them is making *some* money (less than $50/mo) on their different web ventures, they *could* "toss another plate in the air" -- but the current plate takes up a lot of time and effort without a ton of financial return to them, and as such they don't have a whole lot of time to toss another plate up there.

On the flip side, I have a friend who designed and created one of those voucher sites. He was a great at giving vendors (like me) exactly what we wanted. He was very clear in how it would benefit him and us, and they had a great process involved. It took him about 2 years to develop and establish well -- and we were one of his first big clients coming in regularly (quarterly voucher deals). We worked well together. He sold that business for $2m, which then caused the whole business to go completely to sh*t, at which point there were several other companies on the scene (currently, there are 3 main ones -- his is no longer one of them) and I went with the most professional and best of the three. This company was recently sold as well, so we don't know if we'll be continuing with them or not -- or with any at all.

So, it's not like it *can't* be done. But, I will tell you that he and I were up past midnight one night because I had a major issue with his company, got wind of it around 9 pm, was able to get out an email to him around 11 pm, which he answered at 11:30 pm, and then we had an online chat about it until 1 am -- both venting about the cock-up, as well as figuring out what needed to happen to make it all go well and good. So, it's not as if his business was "never work a day in your life again!"

And for what it's worth, he's still working -- he's just tossed another plate in the air. . . his current focus being the development of Apps. He's got two launched and two beta -- but none of them is selling very well at the moment, so he's looking at his market position.

In my own business life, i've spent the last 3 years getting this business off the ground. It's sustained us since 6 months in, and we're now hitting that comfortable profit margin. My work has dropped down to classes plus about 8 hours a week. 4 of those are administrative, the other 4 are my work to expand and continue.

My business looks big, i suppose, but it's just following the idea of "toss another plate in the air" under one banner/idea. If you take out my "job" (the teaching), then it's really only about 4 hrs of administration per week for me, 4 for my husband (marketing/etc), and then add another 4 for me under "business development" -- or getting another plate in the air.

In addition, as I said, we have another business venture idea underway. This one is really to serve a niche that DH noticed, and we're going to see how it goes by starting out relatively small and getting rolling from there. Luckily, it's very low cost for us to start it -- and we are putting it on an accessible growth plan that doesn't over-extend us considering the primary business that supports us does need our attention. So, we want to keep this at about 4 hrs a week while we set it up (i'm drafting the business plan now), and then launch it in September. We'll start marketing in earnest in July, and we have plenty of great opportunities to market through many of our local networks and contacts from then until launch date.

From there, I'm also looking at starting a farmer's market in our community. I thought about a food cooperative, but that's a lot of heavy lifting. I also considered a community garden, but there's no profit in it, so it would have to be a volunteer gig for me -- so maybe down the track. But a farmer's market could create a modest profit over time, and would be relatively simple to set up. But, I need to know about the market's interest, and so I have started a process of "tupperware parties" which I use as market research.

I simply ask a few friends to invite some friends from the neighborhood to get their input on whether and what sort of farmer's market they might like. We all bring nibbles and I buy cases of wine for these things (luckily, on coupons), and then after about 40 minutes of chit-chat, we head into an our of focus-group facilitation to see what sorts of products interest people, what sort of "flavor" the market might have, etc. I've even collected the marketing materials of a variety of small and medium local farmers -- to see which brands and information appeals to the people who live here and which do not. I consider this a long-term side project. It is unlikely to get off the ground this year, and possibly not even next year. Maybe a year from Sept when spring comes -- but. . . who knows?

Most of our markets are in the city, and not everyone wants to make the trek or fight for parking. There's a high end, an all-organics/small producers, and one that focuses on unique ethnic produce. Two are just big-old conventional ones (cool though, still, to wander around). Our community's interest seems to be on local, sustainable, and 'good story' in terms fo the producer. I find that really interesting.

Those are basically 3 different big plates -- all of which have multiple sub-plates.

So, I've just started one of my sub-plates in the yoga business.

I've had a client base in a small town on the south island since 2007, and I visit them intermittently to do trainings and classes. I've been working with a studio there to try to form a dynamic partnership where i help develop their business and also serve my client base. But, we haven't been able to come to terms.

So, it got me thinking. I started talking with people in my client base, and . . . well anyway. . . after a lot of discussions, I just decided to go independent. I was a little afraid, because I was like "how will the word get out there? OMG!" After a modest freak out and budget analysis, Dh came up with a brilliant method of handling it all, and through some of my connections, I even have press lined up. LOL figures. It really is a small town.

Anyway, I'll be going there once a month, and then if things grow according to my plans, I'll have teachers trained and be able to take on premises. Even prime locations in that town are super inexpensive -- I found that shocking. Office spaces on the main drag with more space than what I have where I am for $1600/mo (inclusive of tax and outgoings). So, once the client base is developed, then we'd be able to make the leap and that gets our second location going!

It's really fun to have something percolate for a couple of years and then finally have a break through! yay!

Awesome, ZB!

I took a bit of a break from this thread because I was getting so overwhelmed - still am! But that's ok, everytime I come back to thinking about some of my ideas I learn a little more and think through it all a bit more and you all help with that and I appreciate it very much. Now I am going to review the thread for that one-page business plan link.

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Originally Posted by fidgiegirl

Awesome, ZB!

I took a bit of a break from this thread because I was getting so overwhelmed - still am! But that's ok, everytime I come back to thinking about some of my ideas I learn a little more and think through it all a bit more and you all help with that and I appreciate it very much. Now I am going to review the thread for that one-page business plan link.

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You might just try your best idea first, and then if that doesn't work go down your list. I had several false starts trying to find something I could do on my own until something clicked. I took a lot of classes at the local colleges along the way.

Anyone have experience with The Right Brain Business Plan book? I am liking it . . . I like that it starts you out at the formulating an idea spot, which is where I have issues (above).

An icky meeting at work has me thinking about this again. I like my actual work, just not the related BS.

Float On is really right, it is very important to have a good balance.

Self-employment can be the most wonderful thing in the world, but you need to have good balance and must be able to put work down and just enjoy the free time you have.
I work, or lets better say I try, as a freelancer and I am at the beginning to start my own little business. And I am really happy that I can do it...

But for me is important to keep in mind that I must have a good balance. I don't want to forget that;)

Resurrecting this old thread to announce that I went back to working on my photography business and I have landed my first paying customer! :cool: It's a remodeling company that, based on their Web site, really could use some help taking decent pictures. I'm their guy...

One thing I've noted in looking at other small businesses is their "social media" presence. My current situation, to be succinct, is that I don't have one. I have a twitter account in my company name, but I haven't tweeted once from it. I do not have a business page on Facebook. And I don't even have personal Pinterest or google+ accounts, nevermind business accounts. I'm figuring I probably need to do a Facebook page out of the sheer volume and penetration of the site. Pins of remodeled spaces I photograph would fit real well on Pinterest and maybe drum up business for me and the people whose work I photograph. The less I have to do with google the better, but that may not be real avoidable. OTOH, I don't want to start all those contact sources and let them die for lack of material or time. How do other small-businesspeople handle that?

My husband does social media for a few businesses. One is a restaurant. They give him breakfast and lunch as often as he wishes in exchange for his work. Itan arrangement that they both like better than any formalized hours and payment. They have Twitter which is updated a few times a day with daily specials. They have instagram, which was used these past two weeks for a contest. The customer who posted the winning pic of their food got a 25$ gift certificate. They have a facebook page. That's less organized, but still updated at least ince a day.

Talking to him now, and he says lots of companies dump this extra duty on a salaried manager who has no heart or skills for it. So it is rarely updated and poorly done. This is worse than no media presence.

Some businesses pay big bucks to have someone do it, but most can't afford a full time media person.

The trick is finding someone who cares and knows how social media works. And figuring out how to compensate in a way they value that is affordable.

I told my husband to start bartering with a gas station, grocery store, car dealership, apartment complex .... Our whole life could be supplied. ;)

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Originally Posted by Tammy

Talking to him now, and he says lots of companies dump this extra duty on a salaried manager who has no heart or skills for it. So it is rarely updated and poorly done. This is worse than no media presence.

Some businesses pay big bucks to have someone do it, but most can't afford a full time media person.

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Thanks, Tammy. That's kind of what I'm afraid of. My business is me, myself, and I. I would care a whole bunch :) though keeping a lot of social media alive likely would mean less time spent on other things, like looking for customers.

One difference for me is that my customers are other businesses. Certainly there are people at those businesses making the decision to purchase my services. But I don't face customers directly so that I would have a daily special or much seasonality to promote. So I'd have to think of something useful worth reading on a periodic basis. And to keep up with it. Without (my personal peeve) posting only when I have something to sell (that's not social, that's just an overt selling opportunity) and without preaching to the choir (Fb may be a good place to introduce the value of what I do, but if someone is already following me on twitter, do they need to be reminded constantly of the value of good photos? I don't see that as a value-add).

I do follow a few smaller businesses on social media and seeing what they send out makes me think that either I should use pretty much the same stuff in all venues (Fb post looks like a tweet which resembles whatever google+ has, etc.) and let (prospective) customers choose their preferred medium (and risk boring people who follow on more than one platform) or come up with original content for each platform (lots more time spent).

Still thinking....

Not to mention yelp ... It's endless.

Less is more, for business marketing. I don't like being bothered more than once a day by a business.

Not the way most do it, however ...

Deleted because I should read everything I'm responding to first...

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Originally Posted by SteveinMN

Thanks, Tammy. That's kind of what I'm afraid of. My business is me, myself, and I. I would care a whole bunch :) though keeping a lot of social media alive likely would mean less time spent on other things, like looking for customers.

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Your best investment is probably trying to come up in the search engine listings for

commercial photography "your city"

and related terms. Or doing some free work for nonprofits in return for portfolio samples, references and maybe some positive Yelp reviews and free links to your business web site.

Steve, what is the goal of the social media presence? Clients for you or clients for your clients? That could be important. My first thought was, "Of course! Images = Pinterest!" But in the case of your remodeling company, if it's male owners, well, they probably weren't cruising Pinterest to find a photographer. May have been, but Pinterest users are overwhelmingly female. But like you said, their clients might be searching Pinterest for remodeling IMAGES, leading to clients for them. You mentioned realtors in the past, if I remember correctly - where to realtors hang out? On LinkedIn? On FB? Not sure how to find this out.

I have different social media approaches for different audiences. Pinterest is personal and some dissemination of good information for work. I am driving a bit of traffic to Twin Cities Gluten Free through Pinterest, which is big for food photography. Twitter is networking for my paid job. There are TONS of techy educators hanging out there.

Here's another thing with social media - you can automate it. You can set schedule FB updates and tweets and pins. Then, you just go to town with your own site and connect it all up and you don't have to do a ton of posting, though there is the monitoring of comments.

Just some thoughts, not real advice. It's easy to be overwhelmed by all of it and I'm figuring it out as well.

In my own business news, I have decided to put on a one-day craft retreat on October. Have booked a space. Will keep you all updated.

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Originally Posted by fidgiegirl

Steve, what is the goal of the social media presence? Clients for you or clients for your clients?

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Well, some of it is a case of "everybody does it". I remember the days when it was possible to type http//www.nameofcompany.com and not come up with a Web site. Today even the little auto repair place down the block has at least a static Web page with a map, hours, etc. And most businesses seem to have Facebook pages, twitter feeds, etc. So I feel I need to do at least some of it. But I don't want to do it halfway. I see too much of that and I don't think it reflects well on the business.

With Pinterest, though, you raise a good question. Mine is a business-to-business kind of -- umm, business -- so "advertising" what I can do on Pinterest probably would not be fruitful. But being able to provide remodelers/decorators/home stagers with good pictures for Pinterest ... that's a competitive advantage. So I probably ought to know at least how those media work (as I had to learn the rules for MLS listings).

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Originally Posted by fidgiegirl

Here's another thing with social media - you can automate it.

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I'm liking that! I'll have to figure out how that works. I can preload useful stuff. I really didn't even think I'd have to do it real-time. Good to know I don't have to. Thanks!

Bump!

How's everyone doing?

Nothing much to report here, plugging along with Twin Cities Gluten Free, have raised the readership a bit so that's good, but not making any money with 10 views a day. :D

We are still looking at doing our basement to rent out on AirBNB. We have a pretty good idea of what it will take but it's the doing of it that takes time and $$. Luckily DH has good follow-through on such things.

Hoping to hear some inspiration from the crowd, especially since it's been a few months. Go!

P.S. Join us even if you didn't before.

I have been self employed for about 15 years. I have let things slide a bit lately, but I put in some more hours today. I do need to keep more of a schedule. It was easier when DH worked a regular job and the kids were in school most of the day because then I just worked weekdays like they all did.

Terrible. Enjoying retirement too much to put a lot of time into building the business. At one point, I actually thought I had my first customer, but they flaked out on me and there was something in my gut telling me it wasn't worth pursuing this particular job. Gotta push for this winter, though, so I have a stream of work by spring when everyone starts thinking about houses again. I have decided to split the fine-art side of my business from the residential side; that will require some work in (thinking of and) registering a new name, new Web site, etc. Another winter project....

Umm, that wasn't really inspirational, was it? :|(

Our main business, what my DH has done for 27 years is coming to it's end. We had an offer on our equipment and we went for it. Just in the process of closing everything down by the end of the year.

My product photography for jury images is going o.k. and recently I was asked to do some Sr Photo Shoots. One led to a second client and it's been fun and it's brought a few more inquiries. Most of the kids I'm talking to want edgy/industrial and I'm so glad they aren't asking for the standard railroad track or boots and a sundress in a field.

Business has been slow in my main income stream in October, but it is looking like it will pick up in November again. It gave me some time to have a normal life for a couple of weeks, and also do some business planning. My blog is still not intended to make money, just to keep me in the writing habit, though I am always looking for ideas on how I can change it up to make it useful enough to other people to sell something. Suggestions have been: write an ebook, write a real book, start a community, sell products, etc. Any and all thoughts welcome :D Thanks for resurrecting this Kelli!

Not self-employed as such, but have taken on renting my vacation home as a source of income. So far, so good. I'm using AirBnB and was very nervous when I started, but things have gone smoothly. I'm getting the cleaning routine down. I am booked as much as I would like to be through November. My goal is to make $1000 per month - my expenses are about $500.
DH is self employed (musician) and has been losing some students - not having to turn them away as he used to. He has more gigs, but they aren't paying very well.

Float On - Sorry to hear about the glass blowing - you guys did beautiful work.

So great to hear everyone's updates, even if they aren't all roses . . . to be honest, it makes me feel a bit better. :)

puglogic, you might find this interesting: http://pinchofyum.com/category/makin...om-a-food-blog. I learned a lot from these guys. They are from my hometown, but I do not know them; my mom turned me on to their blog.

FloatOn, what will you guys do to replace the income from the business? Not asking in a doomsday kind of way, just curious.

Gardenarian, I would love to chat more about AirBNB when we are closer to ready . . . so glad it's going well for you.

Steve, why the split? Not super knowledgeable about business filings, but couldn't you just do a DBA or something and keep it simple?

I'm having trouble catching a breath. I know going in to the Holiday season that it's crazy busy till about Dec 2nd, but it always catches me by surprise when I'm in the middle of it.

Maybe next year I'll really remember and start getting started in August. Yeah, didn't work this year... maybe next year.

Whooooo!

Cecilia, forgive me if you've said earlier in the thread but it's been so long - what is your business?

Thanks, Kelli, and congratulations on your new, er, "developments" (in your business and your life) :D