Trumps: White Angry Middleclass

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

That is how I feel about our capitalist dystopia. haha

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It might do us all good to be temporary citizens of other countries just to understand how well off we all are here in USA. Russia might be a nice start.

I think part of the reason so many young people like Bernie's message of socialism is that they traveled to Europe or made friends with Europeans in college or have spent lots of time with Canadians or Australians or spent time in these types of places.

So they were just like: "If this is Democratic Socialism -- Sweeeet! Universal healthcare, light-rail, more relaxed ways of life, civil liberties galore! Sign me up!"

But what they don't realize is that a very high percentage of their $ is going into taxes to support all that. Also some of those countries have a very high unemployment rate. I am not against any of those things but I would also need to weigh that against how much more I would pay in taxes.

I actually think they know about the taxes. But they also know that Europe has a more progressive tax structure.

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But what they don't realize is that a very high percentage of their $ is going into taxes to support all that. Also some of those countries have a very high unemployment rate. I am not against any of those things but I would also need to weigh that against how much more I would pay in taxes.

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Yea I think most people expect taxes would be higher (but then again health insurance is also very costly - so a lot of people would break even). As for unemployment the problem is countries usually have very different ways of measuring unemployment, so it's often difficult to compare unemployment rates across countries.

I want to be one of those rich young people that gets to travel though, young people have all the time and money in the world I guess. Oh well I'm middle aged and middle class so so much for that fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Alan

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Ok, thanks. That kind of makes sense.:D

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Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler

I actually think they know about the taxes. But they also know that Europe has a more progressive tax structure.

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A lot of European countries have a pretty significant VAT, which tends to to be very progressive.

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Originally Posted by Alan

For your edification, and my amusement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0f5u_0ytUs

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Well duh! Of course they had a 'program'. Or we suspected they did. They did before and we wanted to be sure they were following through with their promise to dismantle it. See Alan, that was what the speech was about. Saddam was obstructing the inspectors and Clinton was laying out what we could do if the inspectors wern't allowed to finish their job.
But you notice, Clinton DIDN'T invade. He kept a close watch on it and used careful reasoning to keep us OUT of a war. And it worked...until Bush came along. And Rumsfeld and Cheney were itching to start a war with him. 9/11 was a godsend for them. Unfortunately, there wasn't any real evidence that Saddam had anything at all to do with 9/11. That's where the lies and arm twisting/brow beating came in.
"Either your with us or your against us" Remember that one? How many American Democratic leaders were accused of 'loving the terrorist" simply because they disagreed with Bush. How about Cheney outing our own CIA agent in retaliation for her husband calling them on their lies. How can you possibly condone or excuse any of that?

There were NO weapons of mass destruction. None. Apparently Clinton discovered that. This is why HE didn't attack. So your link is fine, the speech is fine. It just doesn't say what You think it says. It simply shows careful measured approach to dealing with an admittedly nasty character.

And by the way, just so you know...they ALL have weapons of mass destruction 'programs'. Every one of them. They either have it or they want it.

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Originally Posted by jp1

Trump, who knows. If elected he may well turn out to be the blow up the establishment, pragmatic decisions leader we need. (at least until the military industrial complex decides that he's too much a threat of bringing world peace and finds a nice grassy knoll to prevent that). Or he may just be Hitler with a bad comb-over. But we just don't know.

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I agree. It could go either way. His little constituent support seems to be coming from Republicans who are holding their nose and towing the party line, and he is no great friend of the media. If he wanders too far off into the weeds I can see the media blow things out or proportion and an impeachment political bandwagon in the works. His VP pick could be strategic. Or maybe I've just been watching Game of Thrones too much.

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Originally Posted by Rogar

Or maybe I've just been watching Game of Thrones too much.

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Apparently Jon Snow is alive and available.