26 years ago for my daughter, 50 years ago for me, 68 years ago for my parents, about 86 years ago for my grandparents. What makes it more difficult now?Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
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26 years ago for my daughter, 50 years ago for me, 68 years ago for my parents, about 86 years ago for my grandparents. What makes it more difficult now?Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
I certainly don't think it's "sick" for a 17-year old to have a baby. From the perspective of evolution and maturing, a woman's peak childbearing years are late teens through 20s, and then fertility starts to decline. So in that context it's perfectly natural for a 17-18-19 year old woman to have a baby. Maybe it's our culture that's "sick" by setting standards and expectations that run counter to nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
At age 17 or 18 now or even 20… what person can save enough for a home without help or a higher education? I had my own home at age 22 but that was 50 years ago. I doubt that would be likely now. The costs now are very prohibitive.
I don’t care about peak child rearing years. Is that person able to take care of the child and support themselves without help or living in poverty? At 17… I don’t think so.
I guess you have missed my oh-so-enlightening cost comparison studies of my home mortgage payments now vs. then 40 years ago and my graduate degree cost comparison of now vs. then.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
hint: the typical mortage rate when I was single and looking to buy first house was 14%.
At this time last year, and for a few years prior, rates were 3% -4%.
That rate makes a huge difference. But today the rates have gone up. Thanks Joe Biden!
How did Joe Biden cause mortgage rates to go up?Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Dude, he’s in the White House so he gets the credit. I don’t honestly think the president can do much about the economy outside of some tweaks that might result in slight changes. But he sure takes credit for the good stuff that happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
The cost of a house when I bought mine (actually was less than 50 years ago) was less than a price of a new car now. The interest rate was higher but the mortgage was, what, 1000% cheaper? It took us 2 years (without a college degree) to save for a down payment. I doubt a 17-20 year old could do that now!Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
That's true, but you are assuming, as I said in an earlier post, that there is some rule that people have to go to college and buy a house. Some people prefer renting. There are jobs that pay well that don't require a college education. No one said raising kids is easy under any circumstance, but I never saw it written that people have to 1. graduate from HS, 2. graduate from college 3. secure good job. 4. save up for several years 5. buy house 6. have kids. 7. make sure you've traveled and had a good time because after you have kids your life is going to suck. I think this unwritten American playbook is in the collective consciousness and I don't buy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
I suppose maturity is the more critical factor for parenthood rather than age. I suspect my mother would have been mature enough to effectively parent at 18. As for myself, I feel like I'm not quite ready yet at age 64. :laff:
catherine…as noted above, I was expounding on IL post about purchasing a house. Obviously, it is not a prerequisite in life…. nor is college. But being very young and uneducated and having children has proven to be a more difficult or impossible endeavor (in today’s world especially) unless receiving government or family aid. With the recent republican recommendations of cutting food stamps and other child enrichment programs… it will only be more difficult. What jobs as a 17 year old do you know of that pay well (and your definition of paying well) and how many of them are available? And, catherine, you right in that there are no rules but why encourage hardship and possibly poverty … that was what I took from Alan’s previous post as being sick.
You mention chatter in Congress to cut food stamps, but you ignore the actual cutting of food stamps that went on in this White House administration. Now there are reasons for that, and I happen to agree with them, but in the interest of fairness I mention that food stamps have been actually cut in early 2023.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
I didn't take it that Alan was encouraging parenthood for 17-year olds.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
And, to be clear, I defiinitely don't support 17 year olds having babies if they had the babies because their state outlaws abortion. But I still maintain that the culture is way more sick than a tolerance for teenage motherhood.
I agree catherine… cutting SNAP and other aid for mothers is unconscionable too. I would imagine few 17 year olds purposefully get pregnant?
right, you already said this.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
I am getting crickets from you about the cuts that recently took place.
crickets? So you already know why not to vote republican then.
To make it clear, what do you think of the cuts that took place recently on Joe Biden’s watch?Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
IL…you need to expound…
Mr. Google is your friend here.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
Google is your friend too…Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
I'm not sure google is anybody's friend.
Haha! But really I LOVE the Google machine. Jeez, the stuff you can find now instantaneously while sitting on your couch at home. You once had to trudge down to the library to open musty old books and deal with musty old librarians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
You can now even get academic research reported verbatim in academic journals. That stuff used to be subscription only. I confess to not knowing exactly how much Google accesses and how that body of information differs from the expensive databases supplied to citizens by public libraries, but egad it is still wonderful even if limited.
I'm with you. I get the Google Twitch all the time, at a moment's notice, if some question, with or without merit, pops into my head. Honestly, I have so much to criticize about modern technology, but I say this without exaggeration, I believe I am a better person because of the Internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
I used to have to simply remember things. Or remember which book in my library contained the thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
This filled up a lot of brain space.
Now I just have to remember that a thing is a thing, and be able to construct a sufficiently-narrow search string to fetch up the information from The Planetary Overmind. It's sure increased productivity.
Speaking of Planetary Overminds, I think it’s interesting how programs like ChatGPT answer questions with replies that often reflect the biases, misconceptions and prejudices of a sort of rough internet consensus.
So, we typically like to keep children off the Internet until they develop critical thinking skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
ChatGPT was *trained* on the Internet, from birth, so it's not surprising that it, and other similar AIs, behave the way they do....
(See also the "Terminator" franchise.)
All that effort and investment, and we just get lectured by a know-it-all adolescent?
The thing is, it's improving at a rate that is hard to comprehend. The version that went to beta this week is *vastly* more powerful than the version of a month ago. And it's still an infant.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
Exponential processes are difficult to have an intuition for.
Yes, and then we’ll be ruled by a know-it-all adolescent.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
I’d like to offer my thoughts and prayers to Ron desantis. It appears that his efforts to use the state’s powers to punish Disney for having the nerve to exercise their first amendment rights haven’t worked out so well. It must suck to be outsmarted by Mickey Mouse.
A rather entertaining account fitting for an amusement park.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/30/11670...-creek-charles
In the ridiculousness of Florida school censorship, now a school in Pinellas County has banned a movie about Ruby BridgesQuote:
Originally Posted by jp1
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/29/us/ru...ida/index.html
I think the linked story makes it clear that the movie is not banned, but rather has been subjected to a mandatory review as a result of a parental complaint regarding slurs and actions presented in the documentary which may not be appropriate for 2nd graders.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
I wonder how many complaints such as this are received daily in school districts across the country but are ignored by CNN and other outlets, and why?
I see it as the film being effectively banned until the outcome of that review. This editorial from a Tampa newspaper, questioning the wisdom of the action, given it was based on one complaint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
The double standard is alive and well. Cancel culture is alive and well among Florida conservatives, when a handful of people can make important aspects of our history disappear.
The complainant didn't ask for it to go away, the complaining parent suggested it might be more appropriate for 8th graders than 2nd graders given the racial slurs and violent imagery.Quote:
Originally Posted by catherine
How old was Ruby Bridges when she had to deal with those racial slurs aimed at her? First grade? Second grade? Surely if she could handle that then then today's kids of the same age can handle seeing a movie about that history that includes those slurs.
I think I was in 4th grade when they brought in several Holocaust survivors to our classroom to tell us what had happened to them. Made quite an impression on most of us.
A lot of those southern Democrats didn't think much about it when they were hurling them 60 years ago either, but I thought you guys had changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/26/10947...orts-to-remove
And several states have been petitioned to removed to Bible due to the prostitution, sodomy and so on mentioned.
In the meantime what is all this self righteousness doing to increase reading, writing and math skills.
Poor kids. Being robbed of what they really need to focus on.
Times change. Back then it was certainly democrats doing that. But the democrats who supported that attitude all became republicans when nixon welcomed them with open arms to your party when they got pissed at the LBJ democrats for taking a better path. Lincoln is surely spinning in his grave seeing what his party has become.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan