Iris lilies, how are things in your hood?

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

I think the nice thing about Ferguson - the good that is coming out of this? People are going to be more likely to litigate against the police going forward and ask the hard questions of America and this citizenship going forward. Also - police everywhere are going to have to get used to the power of social media being used against them when they step over the line. Overall, their power going forward is going to be questioned and hopefully flattened a bit. My belief is that this is long, long, long overdue. Rob

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I don’t think this one incident is all that pivotal. Lawsuits against police departments and municipal governments in general, have always been a big business in this country. Deep pockets attract that sort of thing. One more case of cops using what may or may not have been excessive force against a mob isn’t going to register all that much on the “world opinion” scale when journalists are being beheaded and a revanchist Russia is waging a not-so-covert war against a neighbor. And even if it did, I’m doubtful the average American is going to writhe in shame over what they’re saying about us in Portugal.

On a more basic level, I don't think the average cop who feels rightly or wrongly under threat is going to restrain his response out of worry over the might and power of the twitterverse.

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

I don’t think this one incident is all that pivotal. Lawsuits against police departments and municipal governments in general, have always been a big business in this country. Deep pockets attract that sort of thing. One more case of cops using what may or may not have been excessive force against a mob isn’t going to register all that much on the “world opinion” scale when journalists are being beheaded and a revanchist Russia is waging a not-so-covert war against a neighbor. And even if it did, I’m doubtful the average American is going to writhe in shame over what they’re saying about us in Portugal.

On a more basic level, I don't think the average cop who feels rightly or wrongly under threat is going to restrain his response out of worry over the might and power of the twitterverse.

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I'm not saying I disagree with you entirely per se - but I do see this incident as being pivotal as there is awareness now in what remains of middle class America of the heavy handedness of the police and of the militarization of the police and how downright terrifying that can be. Also - going forward people will not hesitate to use social media against the police and since so much of the world dislikes America to begin with, this can have an impact both economically and reputation-wise. I think it already has in this case to be honest. And then if there is no indictment in this case - heaven help us if places like Ferguson explode and if this behavior spreads out into other Ferguson-like areas across the US. People are angry and fed up where I live and I can see this exploding very easily - but maybe this is necessary for basic human rights and positive social change? And I'm very pleased to think of all the lawsuits coming down the pike in Ferguson - I really do believe that people will be suing the police and using social media against the police more and more in the future. It's about time is all I can say. Long, long, long overdue. Rob

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Originally Posted by iris lilies

I wondered how you were counting "generations" since I figured 1=20 years and that ticking clock rang a few years ago. about 2005. Notice that nothing has changed. Derrick Jensen is just one more pontificating blowhard.

There is institutionalized racism in this country, and in all countries. It's sad and unfortunate that dark skin=more distrust and dislike heaped upon people. Of course, it's not just skin color in the U.S., it's a whole culture of values and behaviors that the underclass cling to, and that cause disrespect/fear/distrust/ and that does not serve them well, at least if they aspire to secure a stable economic place in our society. Is it worse in the U.S? It's worse here than in some places. It's better here than in some places. And it's worse/better here in the U.S. depending upon region. But "women are the n.i.g.g.e.r.s of the world" according to famed philosophers* so African Americans do not have the market cornered on victim-hood.

Now that the looting and rioting is over for the moment in my metro area, the airwaves, print media and tv are overwhelmed with racism discussions, calls for race discussion, and planning for discussion of race.

Yawn, I think I will avoid "The Conversation" since I've been hearing this stuff for 25 years and it bores me. At one time I was open and willing to participate, having been well trained up by educated liberal parents who lived in a lily white state in a white suburb (we had one African American in my class of 240 students and he was elected class President. His father was a physician. He was pretty suburban) then I moved to the 'hood and got real about criminals and the po-lice here.

In my neighborhood the po-lice are on my side, no questions, it is clear.We know our beat cop by name, DH regularly calls him (just called him this week in fact about a door nob theft) and we strive toward good relations with the police department. We take up collections for him, we attend Guns And Hoses each year and/or donate (fundraiser fo Backstoppers) and we furnish the police substation with food and drink. We cultivate the presence of police here because they keep the bad guys at bay.


*yoko and john lennon

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IL, I'm really stunned that you would know your beat cop by name. Wow. I don't think anyone in my neighborhood does. I certainly don't. I've distrusted the police for years as I've said and with all the Hispanics in my neighborhood being afraid of the police - it doesn't make for positive interactions with the police. A positive police interaction for me at this point would be no interaction whatsoever. Rob

Only a very naïve Scotsman(or "Eddie", here) would stop a cop and ask for directions, or just to introduce themselves--unless they like the idea that there's a VERY good chance they will be asked to furnish an ID in the form of a valid drivers license, a current proof of auto insurance card, and wait while the officer checks to see if your license plate number is on the hot sheet, or are one of the tens of thousands of citizens who have outstanding warrant(s)from Felonies to minor infractions like failure to appear for a dog at large citation on an afternoon when you were required to work. It's how they catch a good number of them/us. Oh, how about that taillight out? Gotcha. Y'ain't been drinkin' this evenin' have ya? Gotcha. Do you mind if we take a look inside your car? Avoid the po-lice the best you can. Saying you'll stay out of trouble if you don't do anything wrong is glib reasoning/ circular logic, because everyone does something wrong at one point or another. I always get stopped & checked at roadblocks and stuff, while the cops wave Mama and her kids in the huge consumer minivan on through. But Mr Cop keeps his hand on his 9mm at all times when interacting with a Scotsman like Me. See?

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

IL, I'm really stunned that you would know your beat cop by name. Wow. I don't think anyone in my neighborhood does. I certainly don't.

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Pretty much everyone in my community knows every deputy on duty here by name, and the Sheriff. The deputies live in the community, they play in community bands or on sports teams or act in plays or volunteer for the fire department in their spare time. Their kids go to the same schools as everybody else's, they shop at the same stores, they eat at the same restaurants, etc. etc.

The only people here who fear to interact with the officers are the meth cookers, drug smugglers and dealers, predatory sex offenders and the violent scum. But I'll tell you, the officers provide a more civilized way of dealing with the scum here than what would occur if we had no police presence, and real "community policing" - there'd be a great crab harvest next year, and no scum :-)

It (Orcas)sounds sure like a good place for Iris to relocate! They prolly could use a very conservative lirrrran, there.

Bae's community is quite different from some inner-city places. I don't know our Sheriff's deputies by name here, but I could if I wanted to. I just don't see them enough........fortunately! (Only when crazy stray dogs come around!) My interactions with them have always been good.......as I believe most people feel around here. I think a lot has to do with the stress they do or don't encounter with bad people on a regular basis. They're only human too.

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Originally Posted by bae

Pretty much everyone in my community knows every deputy on duty here by name, and the Sheriff. The deputies live in the community, they play in community bands or on sports teams or act in plays or volunteer for the fire department in their spare time. Their kids go to the same schools as everybody else's, they shop at the same stores, they eat at the same restaurants, etc. etc.

The only people here who fear to interact with the officers are the meth cookers, drug smugglers and dealers, predatory sex offenders and the violent scum. But I'll tell you, the officers provide a more civilized way of dealing with the scum here than what would occur if we had no police presence, and real "community policing" - there'd be a great crab harvest next year, and no scum :-)

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I'm glad there is a place somewhere in the US where the police have good relations with law abiding citizens. It is not here where I live in Phoenix, though I suspect (though have no proof) that if you were to go North a few miles from where I live there would be less fear and distrust of the police. I can say when I went to college in Flagstaff years ago - late 1980's - same thing, distrust of the police all around. When I lived in Portland, though, I didn't sense anywhere near the level of hostility and distrust towards the police but at the time Portland, OR was 86% white, and this was an in the city limits statistic. I'm of the opinion this may have something to do with that. Rob

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Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife

I'm not saying I disagree with you entirely per se - but I do see this incident as being pivotal as there is awareness now in what remains of middle class America of the heavy handedness of the police and of the militarization of the police and how downright terrifying that can be. Also - going forward people will not hesitate to use social media against the police and since so much of the world dislikes America to begin with, this can have an impact both economically and reputation-wise. I think it already has in this case to be honest. And then if there is no indictment in this case - heaven help us if places like Ferguson explode and if this behavior spreads out into other Ferguson-like areas across the US. People are angry and fed up where I live and I can see this exploding very easily - but maybe this is necessary for basic human rights and positive social change? And I'm very pleased to think of all the lawsuits coming down the pike in Ferguson - I really do believe that people will be suing the police and using social media against the police more and more in the future. It's about time is all I can say. Long, long, long overdue. Rob

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I guess I see social media as less of an ultimate weapon and more as just so much technologically enhanced gossip. And even if it were not, I see attitudes hardening more than changing. I would be fairly surprised if people were still talking about this situation a year from now.

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Originally Posted by LDAHL

I guess I see social media as less of an ultimate weapon and more as just so much technologically enhanced gossip. And even if it were not, I see attitudes hardening more than changing. I would be fairly surprised if people were still talking about this situation a year from now.

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I'm of the opinion that this will still be on the radar screen a year from now, provided there is no indictment of the officer. I take this stance due to my belief that what will happen if there is no indictment is going to shock and awe a great deal of what is left of middle America and above. Funny thing is my attitude - if this happens - will only be surprise that it didn't happen sooner as I understand what leads to such things happening. Whether or not it is right is irrelevant to me in the sense that I understand what leads to such situations and I also understand that some changes need to be made or this is going to continue. Rob