Immigration Case Review

Ummmm...better brush up a bit, Alan....From Wikipedia:

"In 2001, 250,640 people immigrated to Canada, relative to a total population of 30,007,094 people per the 2001 Census. On a compounded basis, that immigration rate represents 8.7% population growth over 10 years, or 23.1% over 25 years (or 6.9 million people). Since 2001, immigration has ranged between 221,352 and 262,236 immigrants per annum.[3] According to Canada's Immigration Program (October 2004) Canada has the highest per capita immigration rate in the world,"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Canada

Somehow, I think our 300,000,000 population could absorb a couple million more Mexicans without a problem. They are hard workers, family centered, upstanding folks. Heck, maybe we'd be better off taking THEM in and sending some of the Minutemen types I've known down there, and see how well THEY do........

not an argument I'm really interested in having. I get too emotional. have seen WAY too much racism involved in this question, up close and personal.

Yep, they are breaking our laws. And yep, it means that the laws should change. End of story as far as I am concerned.

Many immigrant families have traditional values and are drawn to Republican candidates.

But even then, I'm not in favor of softness with those who are here illegally. Get legal, vote Republican. yeah, that's the ticket.

Long term research regarding the social and economic forces that drive significant immigration - such as that we see from Central America and Mexico into the US states that this flow of humanity is due to significant disruption in home countries.

The US driven conflict in El Salvador and Guatemala drove desperate people north. NAFTA drove and still drives desperate people north. Large scale displacement is obvious and understandable. I too would take my chances and flee if I had been a Guatemalan in the 80's (I lived in Guate then and met many refugees fleeing civil war). I too would take my chances with La Migra if I thought I could feed my family. I don't believe any immigrant has contempt for our laws; I believe most immigrants from Latin America are taking huge risks to survive. Frankly, the very characteristics which drive many, many people to immigrate without documentation also makes them entrepenurial. I respect and admire anyone willing to risk their lives to leave their homeland in order to stay alive and feed their families.

The immigrants I know, from northern Africa, Latin America, SE Asia, and Russia are tough, stable, driven alpha types who fled horribly incomprehensible situations, and are making it work. Rather like my German forebearers from the 18th century, fleeing religious persecution in the Old world. The ones who made this country great, right?

Rather than freaking out about do they or don't they have papers, let's look at these workers and community members for the overwhelming contributions they bring to our country, as well as the horrible conditions they fled, and create a straightforward legal process to gain citizenship while they live their lives here. Yes, amnesty. Being a citizen of the US isn't a zero sum thing. It's a big country, filled with good people. Most of us are immigrants and descended from immigrants.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by loosechickens

Ummmm...better brush up a bit, Alan....From Wikipedia:

---

While we're brushing up, what are the requirements in Canada to be approved as a legal immigrant? Are there very specific educational/skills based requirements? Would the average citizen of Mexico or other South American countries be approved?

In other words, are there any western countries that do not limit immigration to numbers that they can easily absorb and support?

And while we're brushing up and asking questions, if the United States adopted an immigration policy of "come one, come all", how many people do you think would appear at our southern borders and what effect would it have on our economy/standard of living/governance?

Honestly, I think everyone is in favor of helping a neighbor in need, but at what point does that willingness to help begin to negatively effect the rest of the population? Or, is that even worthy of consideration?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alan

So, there shouldn't be consequences for any of those actions?

Doesn't that say more for Mexico than it does for the US? Would Canada or England or any other western country allow something like a million and a half immigrants move to their country at will, especially if there were no employment infrastracture to accommodate them?

---

A lot of US employment infrastructure is dependent on illegal labor. All those jobs "Americans aren't willing to do" (which is business speak for jobs that offer wages and benefits most US citizens would not accept).

I get annoyed with the whole thing because the illegal immigration issue, I think for many businesses and others in this country, has nothing to do with keeping illegals out. Many businesses would not survive that. It has to do with maintaining a subclass of workers in this country that flies under the reach of labor laws, minimum wage laws, etc, has little to no protection under the law, depresses wages for everyone and is unable to unionize. When the AZ immigration enforcement law was passed the first challenges were not from the feds, it was from employers. It's a way to "insource" large amounts of cheap labor and given the lack of enforcement of the employer side, it's practically legal. And why would corporations paying little to nothing in federal taxes care what costs this incurs on the government side?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alan

I like Dennis Leary's thoughts on this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd1joMXw--4

---

That was funny and so appropriate!! :laff:

Peace

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by loosechickens

not an argument I'm really interested in having. I get too emotional. have seen WAY too much racism involved in this question, up close and personal.

---

It is probably even more emotional for the anti-immigrant types who feel that the country they love is losing its ethnic makeup.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iris lily

Many immigrant families have traditional values and are drawn to Republican candidates.

But even then, I'm not in favor of softness with those who are here illegally. Get legal, vote Republican. yeah, that's the ticket.

---

If Republicans want to do better electorally with immigrants/future Americans, they need to tone down the rhetoric.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by creaker

A lot of US employment infrastructure is dependent on illegal labor. All those jobs "Americans aren't willing to do" (which is business speak for jobs that offer wages and benefits most US citizens would not accept).

I get annoyed with the whole thing because the illegal immigration issue, I think for many businesses and others in this country, has nothing to do with keeping illegals out. Many businesses would not survive that. It has to do with maintaining a subclass of workers in this country that flies under the reach of labor laws, minimum wage laws, etc, has little to no protection under the law, depresses wages for everyone and is unable to unionize. When the AZ immigration enforcement law was passed the first challenges were not from the feds, it was from employers. It's a way to "insource" large amounts of cheap labor and given the lack of enforcement of the employer side, it's practically legal. And why would corporations paying little to nothing in federal taxes care what costs this incurs on the government side?

---

Boy you got that right! The farmers, and other businesses who use illegal labor, don't want to actually pay living wages, or health care of anything, so having an illegal work force, who have to accept low wages with no safety support structure is perfect for them. A serf class, if you will.
Personally I'm torn a bit on this. On the one hand, I do respect the laws of the country, but on the other hand, I am all for the immigrant society, which we are really, as all of us came from somewhere else unless we are native American, or Mexican in some cases, ironically enough. America was built on/with/for immigrants as our history. I say come one come all, but come willing to contribute and work. Isn't this the American Dream after all? This is the absolute beauty of our country.
Having traveled and lived around the world, I've see mono-ethnic cultures and I always marvel at the wonderful diversity that is America. America is different and only when you travel and come back can you really appreciate how diverse and wonderful it is.
I do not fear a brown hoard streaming from the south. I welcome them. I just wish our country had a more legal and swift way to integrate them.

I think I'm rambling. I'm hungry. Time to start the grill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gregg

I'm sure there are cases, but I'm not sure I ever met anyone who came to this country to be on welfare. Are there really so many who came here with the thought of not working and/or just to take advantage of various programs?

---

I agree. I don't think people come here specifically to get social benefits. What the study was saying was that for people already living and working here illegally at low wage jobs (and I think we can all agree that most illegal immigrants are working at low wage jobs), that allowing amnesty to them and changing their status to legal immigrants would then allow them to apply for many social benefits that they were not previously allowed due to their illegal status. Many of the social benefits that are available require a person have a legal right to be in the country, so many people here illegally aren't using all the benefits they would be entitled too if they had amnesty.