Yes you do! For sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by rosarugosa
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Yes you do! For sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by rosarugosa
Opporative words... We are in a PANDEMIC!!! There are people who believe they have the right to infect me because they don't want to wear a mask. Where are my rights to be safe? In this instance (Pandemic) I believe it should be mandated that everyone wear a mask in a business or where they cannot social distance. This is not a political issue but a medical one!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
I agree with Rogar's post above.
I get what you're saying, I just don't like the idea of government mandates which then require punitive measures to punish any naysayers.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
I admittedly don't get out as much as I used to but I do visit the local grocery store and hardware store and gas station from time to time. Maybe it's just my area but I haven't seen anyone violating mask guidelines while in proximity to others in months. Maybe they're all just reasonable people who figure that the guidelines make sense and it's in their interest to follow them but I'd hate to see the odd person without a mask face legal consequences for it.
Keep the guidelines and forget about punishing people for their lapses. I doubt their intent is to hurt you.
Just saw 2 guys today without masks. It is mandated here too. Saw another guy today (while I was out walking) who went into a store and they made him leave and come back with a mask. There are still trumpers that think this is a hoax or they have a right to inflict their stupidity on others. I believe these people should get fined. They continue in this vein and they will have the virus and pass it on. Why don't they get this is a pandemic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Damn Trumpers!Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
I agree. It is moronic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Trump is now on record saying that he knew this was a dangerous pandemic and he deliberately downplayed it--to the extent of saying it was the "new Democrat hoax" and repeatedly chiding people for wearing masks. Now he's replaced Drs. Fauci and Birx with a sycophant (a radiologist--probably less useful than a dentist when combating infectious disease) putting stock in the repeatedly debunked "herd immunity" theory, and going along with Trump's "no testing" policy.
They oughta be fined whether they wear a mask or not, dontcha think?Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
How do you justify trump having a rally of over 15,000 people? trump does not wear a mask or require them to do so. He obviously does not care about his base. As was in the news.... he has known early on that the virus is by airborne spread. Dontcha think that is moronic? rump is obviously a large part of the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
I understand they hand out masks at those rallies, that takes us back to the original question. Do you want them arrested or fined and does that desire have anything to do with whether or not they're wearing a mask?Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
There was no consensus that the virus was airborne (and mostly otherwise) when Trump supposedly believed it was airborne (well travels in the air). So Trump uniquely ahead of the curve in having an understanding of things, or making stuff up? Uh it's Trump of course it's believing whatever is in his head that day. Trump denotes none of whatever brain power he might have to stuff that doesn't very narrowly interest him. But as for what did he know and when did he know it, that didn't even exist in our knowledge of the disease at the time I suspect.Quote:
As was in the news.... he has known early on that the virus is by airborne spread.
But suspecting it was dangerous was of course warranted and he suspected it was dangerous and did little about it. That much is true.
The question is, is it acceptable for them to refuse a mask, get infected, and then go infect others? Personally I'd say no, but I suppose other people might say "but, muh freedom!" 250,000 cases have now been tied to Sturgis. How many restaurant workers and others they subsequently interacted with in that area have now had their lives effed up, potentially fatally, because of the irresponsibility of so many people? Assuming a 1% death rate that's 2500 lives cut short because selfish people insisted on having their annual biker vacation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
I'm now up to six people I personally know that have been infected. I learned today that the unplanned three week absence a professional contact took about six weeks ago was because he had covid. (eight people if I include his wife and young son who I've never met). MG, my professional contact, had a moderately severe case, two weeks of serious fever, coughing, etc, but didn't end up in the hospital. His wife had a mild case, his young son no symptoms at all but now has antibodies. Fortunately MG has good insurance and an understanding employer so he was able to take the time he needed and had access to top notch healthcare.
For him to be discussing the idea that it was transmitted airborne at that time likely means that people like Fauci had informed him that that was the case, or at least the suspected case, well before the rest of us were informed of that now well understood fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
250,000 or maybe only 290 according to the AP. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sturgis...esearch-doubt/ , and again by The Huffington Post https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sturg...b62b3add3b4cc3Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
I guess it depends upon who you ask and which narrative they wish to advance.
I'm curious, among your associates who have had Covid has there been any commonality of possible exposure or lax behavior? There are the obvious super spreader events like Sturgis and a few more isolated cases that I've read about in the news, but there is no one in my social circle or their families or friends who have had it. Most of us are retired and have the luxury of being safer at home and have generally followed something like what Fauci recommends for good practice, but there are a few multigenerational families with younger school teachers teaching remotely and also some child care duties. My area has not shown up as any big hot spot but probably falls somewhere in the middle for infection severity.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
There doesn’t seem to be any definitive pattern that I can see except maybe plane travel. Three traveled by plane in February and March. One lives in nyc and probably got it either on transit or at a store before masking was universal. One just got it despite serious efforts to play it safe and one likely got it through their kid’s daycare because several families got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
We’re continuing to stay home as much as possible but since we’re moving in a week we’ve had random people in our home and will have to do so some more over the next week and a half. A risk but there’s not really anything we can do to avoid it other than mask up, wash hands a lot and open windows.
So the World Health Organization was in on the lying (of course the CDC). Tell me is there anything Fauci doesn't lie to us about then, all of them costing lives? Because not being informed of this costs lives as with masks. And that's the real scandal here then and Trump a mere distraction. To deliberately withhold from the public information that could save lives when you know better and you are the expert: immoral and likely criminal. Send them all to the Hague (Trump and Fauci) if it can be proven.Quote:
For him to be discussing the idea that it was transmitted airborne at that time likely means that people like Fauci had informed him that that was the case, or at least the suspected case, well before the rest of us were informed of that now well understood fact.
This is the new infections map as of 8/31. I wonder what that big red blob in western south dakota is...Attachment 3430Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Knowing that a not insignificant amount of Americans have a tendency towards selfishness and non-empathy what should Fauci have done? I agree that lying about the usefulness of masks was wrong. And definitely affects his credibility for forever. But if he had said ‘wear a mask’ in February or early March how many people would have run out and bought 5,000 masks, leaving none for healthcare workers? Or worse, done like the asshole who rented a big truck and ran around and bought up all the sanitizer at every store he could get to in Ohio or wherever it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
Alan, If someone gives me the virus, I won't much care if their intent was to cause me harm or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Thanks, that's interesting. Not exactly super spreader events, but mostly higher risk situations from what we now know.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
I see a big threat to civil liberties from those who want to fine and arrest people for not wearing masks, or infinitely worse, for not believing in wearing masks.
My son's friend teaches first grade in Maine, and on the first day of school, one of his students announced that Covid was a conspiracy and ripped his mask off and threw it in the trash.
Are you going to arrest him? Take him away from his parents saying they are unfit parents?
My experience here is like Alan's--people are working hard to wear masks and socially distance and do everything that is requested of them.
Assuming people are ill intentioned or criminals because they might be carriers of a disease--we still have to live together, and this does not help at all.
It’s always 20% of the people causing 80% of the problems. The good old 80/20 rule. In any organized social activity, there’s always those who think the rules don’t apply to them. Then there are the ones who comply but they bitch and moan about it.
In our community garden this year our rate of poor participation was low, only two or three beds out of 40 were useless dolts. Usually we have 6 or 7 problem children. Another example— Our friend is in charge of collecting $2000 from each household that goes into a fund to repaint their row house facade. He said 2 households didn’t pay last year and haven’t yet paid this year. He said that’s the rate no matter who is living in those units, it’s always 2 who don’t pay up.
There is always without fail a rate of noncompliance regardless of the social rule, regardless of the social strata, regardless of the issue.
The Washington Post had a recent article surveying major cities around the world and what is permitted and what is not. Nearly ever city requires masks and most have police checks and fines. There are reasons why we have such a high number of infections and I could speculate that at least some of some of it comes down to expressions of personal liberty at the risk of others.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...g/?arc404=true
Yes, this is my understanding as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
The point is... we are IN A PANDEMIC!!! If people do not wear masks to protect others and themselves they should be fined or worse. They are totally stupid... including our moron president. People protect their possessions by all means possible... shouldn't our health be protected also?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
What is the point of having guidelines then? I really don't care their intent!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
An odd person would be able to get a mask free of charge in many places. That is no excuse.
IMO that child should be sent home and suspended. If it continues... suspended indefinitely. The parents are teaching this child this nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
The other children there need to be protected.
See Rogar's post above.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
I guess I see it differently. The children in school are already getting "mask breaks" so they are not wearing the masks for the entire class period. The risk he presented with his action was no more than the risk they all present each other several times a day.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
Suspending a first grader on the first day of school seems antithetical to the idea of education. Here is your opportunity to teach how to get along with others and to look out for others and to live in a civilized society.
I find this situation ironic, as did the teacher. If nothing else, the child is thinking critically, which is another goal of public education. If you believe Covid is a conspiracy, then why wear a mask? That is impressive logic for a six year old. Well ahead of his age, developmentally speaking.
If you are a teacher, you are there to teach. So get teaching.
Oh well. Praying they all stay safe. He is not in my granddaughter's pod as he is in a different district. Half her class is being kept home by their parents and homeschooled. Of the 30 registered, only 14 are actually going to school at the school, and they are in two pods of 7, and only go to school two days a week.
My husband said he would have kept the kids home if we were in that situation. Why risk it? I would have done the same thing. But I totally understand what my son was trying to do by sending her.
Come on... a first grader is being taught this at home.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
Of course he is. He has a belief system from what he has learned at home. He is then given an instuction and he compares the instruction to his belief system, and he rejects the instruction as illogical, inconsistent with the belief system. That is very unusual for a six-year-old, developmentally speaking.
Most six-year olds will do what they are told. That's all I was trying to say, that along with the idea that here is a perfect opportunity to actually teach this child something about getting along with others and being a part of a civilized society.
Oh brother. hogwash..... goobledygook!
Your prowess in debate techniques never cease to astound me.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
Happy to oblige.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Now the orange moron had 2 rallies in Nevada. Reno and Vegas said no so he went to the small town of Minden. 5k/crowd with people close together and no masks. Then a indoor rally in Henderson because his friend owns it. Ugh! Our state has a rule no more than 50 people. Local law enforcement refused to get involved. If there’s any justice he will get it.
I'm trying--and failing--to imagine Eisenhower or Bush Sr. or LBJ holding mass adoration rallies. Or publicly referring to other nations as "shit-hole countries." Or any one of a number of astonishing aberrations Trump's engaged in--and I can't even come close. He's one of a kind, and not in a good way--certainly proving, over and over, that money can't buy class.
Yes, trump is above the law. He openly is defying state regulations and his own administration's pandemic health guidelines. According to the paper, those in the stands directly behind trump, whose images would end up on tv, were mandated to wear face coverings. I think he should be arrested or fined! I guess he wants his base to catch the virus??? ..... a true moron!
Hand in hand with Bill Barr--his own personal AG, willing to bend or break any convention or law in service to his master.Quote:
Originally Posted by frugal-one
He’s not ignoring his government’s pandemic recommendations. He’s putting non scientific political hacks in charge or the government organizations that make those recommendations to make sure that good recommendations don’t get made. . Sounds very unamerican but I’m sure his sad ‘team red forever’ non-supporters will stand behind him 110% and claim that it’s no big deal because that’s just the sad way they are. And then those same ‘non-supporters’ will wonder why the rest of us think they are shitty humans who hate America.