Plus one trillion. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
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Plus one trillion. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
Unbelievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
Europe is starting its second wave, including in countries with mask mandates. So much for them being an effective preventive measure.
Reallly? Imagine how bad it would be if people DIDN'T use them!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Agreed. I can also say that in Austria, it's now considered socially deviant to not wear a mask. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by happystuff
Here, too, for sure.
Speaking of Europe, I was listening online to BBC Radio 5 live late in the week. There’s some discussion of another lockdown in the UK. The host brought up the further economic damage another lockdown could do. One caller was screaming at him, saying that anyone who worries about the economy is a murderer. Another caller was talking about he was about to lose his house.
I know some parts of England are having more restrictions added due to number of rising cases.
They shouldn't have stopped the payments to people and people would not lose their houses.
I bet in most places any unemployment benefits aren’t going to be enough to pay a mortgage and all your other regular bills. The guy in question worked in hospitality.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
I heard on the new (??) that if all people would just wear a mask, follow social distancing, no large crowds for 6 weeks everything would calm down and people could get on with their lives..... Doesn't sound unreasonable but, of course, there are those who think it is their right not to wear a mask. A person might still have to wear a mask but life could go on with little or no deaths until a better solution shows up.
Yes. In various parts of Europe they are talking about shutting down businesses, not allowing people to travel more than 1 kilometer from home, and cutting way down on gathering sizes, because masks just are not cutting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/16/cdc-...-vaccine-.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Face coverings are “the most powerful public health tool” the nation has against the coronavirus and might even provide better protection against it than a vaccine, the head of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention told lawmakers Wednesday.
“We have clear scientific evidence they work, and they are our best defense,” CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield said. “I might even go so far as to say that this face mask is more guaranteed to protect me against Covid than when I take a Covid vaccine.”
That's my admittedly lay view of masks vs vaccines as well. If the vaccine proves to be effective, I would still wear a mask until the virus subsides.
I was shopping today in the antique mall and a customer was yelling at a employee because employee’s mask was not covering some essential part of her face.
Eye roll.
These are semi genteel people who work here and who shop here, so it’s not like Walmart hoosiers. It was slightly entertaining, slightly distracting.
According to a scientist at UC Davis "social distancing reduces the risk of transmission of the virus by 90%, and wearing masks decreases the risk by 65%."Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane v2.0
I am hoping for a vaccine that is 70% effective, a figure I have seen scientists say is realistic. But for now social distancing is our best defense. Masks even if properly and consistently worn do not stop small particles. An analogy would be celibacy is much better than a condom at preventing pregnancy.
People are pushing masks because they are lonely and bored and want to have things like weekly card parties with their friends and weekly date nights with their spouses instead of staying home until this is over.
To me, those figures mean we keep using both social distancing and masks until we get a vaccine and a cure. Why not improve our odds and lessen the chances of folks getting sick?
Tybee do you wear a mask when you are by yourself at home? Or is the social distancing sufficient? What if you are out walking and you can avoid others by crossing the street? Why do both if one will suffice and masks are burdensome and impede breathing?
Huh? Why would I wear a mask by myself at home? I am not following you. Who would do that?
You could have an open window and germs float over from the neighbors. But the distance is great enough to protect you. Distance is our savior, not masks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
Wear a mask by yourself at home? You really don't make sense. Out walking AND cross the street - yes, I still wear a mask! Masks may be burdensome and impede breathing to some, but why not ask Tammy on these forums how her covid recovery is going after... how many WEEKS/MONTHS!?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Keep being a whiner about masks and I'll still wear one to help keep myself and people like you safer. Have a good day and I really hope you DON'T get the virus.
Masks are also harmful because they give people a false sense of security. They stop social distancing and put themselves at greater risk than if they were barefaced and social distancing. They are only 65% protected versus 90% protected. They are worse off.
What people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Another way to think of this is imagine that you know for a fact that someone has covid. Would you hang around them less than 6 feet apart only wearing a random cloth face covering? Would you go into a covid ICU like this and feel safe, or would you keep your distance? Which is safer, the mask which some are saying is "the best" protection, better than a vaccine? Or the distance, staying away from the hospital, which I and experts say is "the best"?
Back to my analogy. If you knew for a fact someone had AIDS would you say okay I'll have sex with the person, use a condom and take the chance it won't break? Or would you sexually distance yourself from that person, or double bag or something equivalent to an N-95 mask specially fit to your face?
Yppej, I don't know if you have already answered this somewhere or not but... how, when, where and why do you actually wear a mask?
Do you wear one to protect yourself AND others, or just yourself, or not even to protect yourself?
Do you wear a mask only where the rules/requirements mandate the wearing of one? If your work made it optional, would you still wear one? If you are outside, do you wear one? When you are not wearing one are you ensuring you are social distancing properly?
When you wear a mask, do you wear it properly or just 'however', as long as it is somewhere on your face?
And I ask these questions to try to figure out what you are actually doing - not other people, but you! Regardless of all your anti-mask posts, what are your actual actions regarding masks?
I think it’s obvious that we do both. We socially distance when possible (at home alone without a mask) and we we wear a mask when we have a necessary reason to go out (groceries, pharmacy).
It’s both/and, not either/or.
The key phrase here is "necessary reason to go out". People are going out unnecessarily because they are bored and justifying it by saying, "But I'm wearing a mask." Even with groceries and pharmacy, many businesses are now delivering. In my area pharmacies are doing so at no additional charge, and there are pharmacy drive-thrus as well. If people had just stayed home for a few weeks in March and we kept the borders closed we'd be done with the virus already. If you get transmissibility below 1.0 it dies out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammy
Most people I know stayed home for almost 3 months. Europe is in bad shape because Europeans love to vacation and many did so in August.
Agreed. I had my pharmacy mail my meds this month.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
I wear a mask because I believe in a layered approach to not dying. There are various things we can do to reduce risk. Masks are one of those things. Social distancing another. Not going to indoor spaces with other people a third. Some people want to be stupid. I choose not to be around them. Thankfully I live in a state that takes this seriously. My county’s infection rate has been relatively stable for quite a while now.
There's a serious problem in a number of areas with under 30 year olds not social isolating and having parties and the like. In Chicago/Cook County, something like 1/3 of new cases are in this age group.
I wonder if unexpected pregnancy is also the same problem in these groups? Even at my age, I remember the incredibly stupid things I did at that age (and wish I could forget them).
jpg, I am with you. We are being careful, staying away from strangers and most that we know. Masks are always worn. We were talking about cash transactions yesterday. Only need it at the tomato stand so I said give me $10 worth and did not need cash back. Cannot remember another time I used cash.
The 9/18 podcase (also on youtube) for This Week in Virology has a great discussion on the virus, masks, transmission, etc. They update weekly.
I've been surprised that more recently some of my neighbors who have been following what I consider good practice have eased up on their behavior. I've turned down invitations to backyard gatherings where there have been fifteen or twenty maskless people with food sharing, albeit outdoors. I go past sports fields where young people are practicing and seem blissful to any distancing. And not to mention the big events like pro sports and political rallies or college parties.
I have noticed some adult socially distancing and responsible exercise classes in parks and the crowds on the local walking and bicycling trails are down to a level where they don't seem quite the risk they once were, although masks are less than common. I've had some small outdoor gathering of friends where there is good social distancing, but may lose some social skills when the weather turns colder. I'm still putting off a dental check up and a minor medical procedure, but plan on having my routine physical next month if things look about the same. My best guess is that there will be a second wave when the weather turns colder, the Holidays, and people spending more time indoors. I'm fairly comfortable shopping most anyplace as long as I can go at a less crowded time and can get in and out quickly, but still order a few necessities online. And just got my high dose flu shot.
The popular index these days seems to be rate of infection of those tested. My state is around 3.5%. Last I looked Iowa and a few other states were around 25%. My 92 year old neighbor has relatives in Iowa and says a whole family of Iowa relatives is infected. He referred to them as "Trump supporters".
Yes, I've read some stories about this. Had a young person go to Florida for a death in the family and came back saying how surprised they were that very few people - regardless of age - were wearing masks. It was the first I've actually talked to someone who witnessed/experienced the blatant not-wearing. Most anti-maskers I know of are mainly whiners who will still mask up for self-preservation, even if not to help protect others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
Bears repeating. I'm even more of a hermit than usual--I rely heavily on delivery, and will for the foreseeable future. If by some chance I need to go out, I'll use everything in my armentarium not to be one of those expendable old people some talk so offhandedly about.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
Speaking of funerals, I’m still of the mindset that if any of my family dies, I won’t travel to the funeral. My parents are 86 and 80, still living and working on the family farm. I speak to them daily since I got covid cause mom wishes she could take care of me during this time. Such a sweetheart. We’ve already had the discussion (back in March) about not attending (or even having) a funeral in person in the event of any of our deaths.
I am of the same mind, Tammy, for myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammy
I thought DW and I would not likely attend a funeral, either, but our track record shows we've got a shortlist of people for whom we'll go. It's not much wider than the immediate family of each spouse (and their spouses/families) and select friends (maybe eight for whom we definitely would want to show up). The funeral mass and visitation we attended required masks and encouraged social distancing. Those was observed far better in church than at the visitation/luncheon. We're a week and a half after those events though and, so far, so good.
We do what we can. COVID-19 has robbed us all of so much this year that you really want to draw a line somewhere. We're choosing our exposures.
That’s true each day for each person. It’s a very sad year.
yep, and the hardest hard line of avoiding exposure can't be maintained forever. But even then then I go to the dentist or the doctor if I need to (I have not had to go to a funeral, hopefully not). I go to get food and even add in a trip to the farmers market, it's been since before covid since I have,but before summer is entirely gone I did. To shops on an as needed basis and weigh the need carefully. Eat outside and I'm not fanatical on masks outside unless it's a crowd (inside I've worn masks in any place but mine and bfs - for 6 months now). To the beach (actually as we know pretty safe), use the restroom in a store. And one still aches constantly for the world that used to be, where going to a shop was nothing of nothing, hanging out somewhere other than home (how badly I need this) was nothing of nothing, going to a group event was nothing of nothing (I miss group events so badly), a bare face was nothing, you didn't fear all human contact to the point where noone but bf and doctor/dentist touches or even gets within 6 feet of you, leaving the house for anything didn't have to be oh so carefully weighed till you almost lose your mind.Quote:
That’s true each day for each person. It’s a very sad year.
And I weigh what I'm willing to compromise for (of things that are allowed let's assume) and I realize it's NOT low risk things I miss that much, it's not shopping, I could have plenty of that low risk stuff and still be starving emotionally like I was filling up on nothing. It's the high risk activities I miss most, group activities, hanging out indoors at a coffee shop etc. What really isn't safe, what I can't have. And the freedom of doing anything not being such a heavy choice. Oh and I'd like a professional massage while I'm at it :)
I am late to the conversation!
I am in the group ‘extremely vulnerable’ and ‘shielding’ in UK parlance. Way back in Feb, I was undergoing new tests for another lung problem, other than the asthma I have had since I was about 40. The specialist suggested I severely limited contact with anyone outside my family.
Then in March when the UK started pandemic restrictions, I had already been in lockdown for a couple of weeks. Here we are, in September. The regs against socialising have got stricter again, and I prefer to still ‘shield’. Yesterday, my husbandand I went to have our flu jabs at a drive through clinic in the car park of a local school. First time I had been out of our cul de sac in all those months and first time in a car since Feb! The drive through seemed faster and more efficient than the usual service held at our GP surgery!
We got free food parcels, courtesy of local govt, for the first three weeks, until I managed to convince them that we didn’t need the parcels, aswe had access to online supermarket shopping. All supermarkets here gave priority delivery slots to people on the NHS list shows as extremely vulnerable/shielding
Thank god for the internet and my kindle!
Has anyone decided yet what they’re going to do about the holidays? I usually go to my goddaughter’s extended family. Her family is 6 kids plus parents. Then there are multiple aunts/uncles and family friends invited over. I’m probably not going to go.