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Not how I would describe the situation. Obviously, you enjoy isolation based on your location. The winter is going to be hell IMO. I'm already feeling blue and have been able to social distance outside with neighbors.Quote:
Originally Posted by dado potato
The movie theater complex near us has closed too. There is talk about it perhaps becoming an Amazon facility. I haven't been to the movies since Titanic was released, so it won't be a loss to me personally, but it's still too bad.
We’re fortunate to live somewhere that has decent weather all winter with the exception of occasional rain so we can continue doing outside things. For instance this weekend we went to sonoma and did a few wine tastings. Wineries tend to have lots of outdoor space so they can easily do very distanced tastings. And the hotel we stayed at is a bunch of separate cottages so that was also reasonably safe. As is the well spaced outdoor dining we did. If we go again this winter we’ll likely get takeout dinners since it will be a bit cool to sit outside after the sun goes down. If we still lived in NJ I’d be dreading this winter because the isolation would be tough, even for a semi introvert like me.
The authorities here are still pushing outdoor dining, but really, that has passed here. It was 36 degrees today with snow and sleet in the Chicago area. People aren't going to be eating outside in this weather and it's going to get worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
I guess I should probably schedule another hair cut before stuff gets shut down again.
A lot of restaurants here, if they have the space, seem to be building semi permanent outdoor dining spaces with some sort of covering and patio heaters everywhere. It doesn’t really seem sustainable. Propane tanks are expensive. And if it’s windy those heaters just aren’t enough. On Friday I based my food choice for dinner on what would hold heat long enough for me to eat it all. I really wanted the cod but didn’t want to have something that would get cold before I finished. And that was with it still being 60 degrees and only mildly breezy. Any colder and instead of Moroccan chicken I’d have gone with a bowl of soup. That’s just not a great dining experience. On the other hand we’ve found a great sushi place near our new house. I suppose we could keep doing outside dining there all winter as long as we wear warm enough clothes! 😃
Yeah, I expect that restaurants down south will fare much better than the northern restaurants that have to close down their al fresco dining soon if they haven't already. My son was laid off again because his restaurant is going to take-out only for the winter. They told him to touch base with them in the spring. I'm wondering if they'll survive the winter, frankly.
I don't complain about "winter" here (though I am using the heater some last couple days). But I'm as weary of coronavirus as this.Quote:
Not how I would describe the situation. Obviously, you enjoy isolation based on your location. The winter is going to be hell IMO. I'm already feeling blue and have been able to social distance outside with neighbors.
One might have to risk some exposure to earn money but that's just money and what one must do. There's nothing fun to do and nothing is fun anymore anyway ( https://www.vox.com/the-goods/215237...uarantine-home ). There is nothing meaningful to do as one feels utterly severed from any larger society anyway, I've never cared less about the rest of society in my life, almost it can go to heck for all I care, because I'm just so disconnected (yea, but I'll vote). I think about reading books about hermits and whatever it is they found meaning in if they did, because hermits yea that's the aspirational goal at this point, what is the meaning in hermitage? Any good hermit book recommendations? Keeping in mind Thoreau got my social contact than I do. It never feels safe, everything is a decision of take the risk or not, except you know sitting at home which is almost all one does, as well it's safe. Oh goes and walks in this local place or wherever I guess, same old same old.
ANM, it might be too religious for you, but St Seraphim of Sarov (Russian Orthodox saint) was a hermit for many years. He was said to have a special connection to animals.
Even though SO and I are Reasonably safe and relatively happy and have been able to see friends in a semi-safe way since we have a nice backyard I get the stress people are feeling. My blood pressure issues a few months ago were undoubtedly covid related. I keep in the back of my mind that this too shall pass. One way or another (hopefully not herd immunity) this will end. Hopefully with a soon vaccine since the alternative is truly depressing.
I just heard that another major plant society conference is cancelled for 2021. Good! I am glad they are making these calls early. Now, I just have to get the powers that be to Focus on a cancellation date for the regional iris conference next May. It should not take place.
On Sunday we attended an indoor 4 hour daffodil exchange event. It was held in a huge, beautiful meeting hall. About 20 people spread out in an area designed for 350 people. Interesting aside, the hall was designed by our Hermann architect who is also our neighbor.
A lot of Great Lakes shipwreck events are going to be online. I can’t tell you how happy I am. This is stuff I’d never get to see in person due to distance driving in the fall. Gales of November, the big one in Duluth in November, a one I’ve always wanted to attend. A lot of the presentations for this kind of stuff are power point presentations with video and music, so I don’t think much is lost by going online.
The last two movies I saw in a theater were The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel and The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel 2 - roflol - so I really won't miss going to the movies. I don't know for sure, but I believe the one close to us has also closed.
I see that on Youtube the Detroit Historical Society convened a presentation called Gales of November. It is 1 hour and 10 minutes long. produced by WROK cable TV. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaDdSUaMl_YQuote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
Thank you! The Detroit Historical Society/Dossin Great Lakes Museum have some great stuff on YT.Quote:
Originally Posted by dado potato
It turns out that while covid is more contagious than the regular flu it is not catchy in the way the Spanish flu was, and the absence of restrictions leads to no worse infection rates than the presence of them:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53741851
I belong to a group that has had monthly presentations with fairly well known speakers at out natural history museum auditorium. They now do a Zoom presentation at the normal meeting time where even the speaker is at home. It's actually nice in a way since no driving is involved. Something is missing by not being more personal even though there is a way to ask questions. The presentations are archived and then you can stream them anytime. I could see it making in person presentations obsolete due to convenience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
As a side point, I recently read The Death and Life of the Great Lakes by Dan Egan. It was a NYT best seller a year or two ago. I thought the history of the Great Lakes and their manipulation was simply amazing.
What does everyone make of the rise in Lake Michigan this year? So many places we usually swim, there was no beach left--the water is so high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogar
It was high last year, too. The Great Lakes go through cycles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tybee
I’m a member of the local underwater archaeology society. I’d have to drive to the south side of Chicsgo for meetings before. Get home very late. I LOVE having Zoom meetings. We have a half hour social time before the online meetings, like we would when meeting in person. More people are able to participate online, too, such as members who have moved out of state.
Yppej: the linked BBC story does not seem to say that about the Spanish flu. When you talk about the absence/presence of restrictions, are you referring to restaurant seating and open shops in Sweden?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Around the United States there is a wide range in the incidence of COVID per 100,000 population in each state. Vermont is lowest at 339. The states with the 3 highest incidence are Mississippi 3,918; South Dakota 4,604; North Dakota 5,237
I don't know if an international comparison adds to the discussion, but I will mention Iceland (lots of restrictions, people in quarantine, contact tracing). I looked at a 14-day moving average of the incidence of COVID-19 per 100,000 Iceland population. There was a peak at about 260 3/30/2020. It dropped to near zero from 5/9/2020 to 7/24/2020. It spiked again around 290 and is currently 211. I was eyeballing graphed data, but it should be possible to download the exact numbers. http://www.covid.is/data
"In Sweden, there have been more than 5,500 deaths in a country of 10 million, which is one of the highest death rates relative to population size in Europe, and by far the worst among the Nordic nations."Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Taiwan is an example of doing it right. They implemented strict measures in January, and have had no new cases--except for people trying to enter the country and quarantined--for some time. The last new case among citizens was in April. They have had seven deaths. Our response--or lack thereof-- has been a complete disaster.
Also, there was a comparison on the news last night of cases in areas of the Midwest with mask mandates, and those without. As I recall, the infection rate was about 2 to 1 in the freedom-lovin' :help: mask-floutin' areas. Masks work.
Third, COVID19 isn't the flu.
Fourth: It's pretty easy to cherry-pick headlines from media articles to shore up one's belief system.
Well no it's not as contagious as some things, I don't think any expert ever thought it would be, popular fears perhaps (my fears sometimes), and it's even less contagious with all the measures being taken. And that's why the death toll isn't even higher, most people have still never been infected. It's not so much that it's not so deadly as anticipated, it can be deadly (though not Spanish flu level), it's more that it doesn't seem to spread quite so readily as one might fear with the measures being taken.
Many countries have done better than us such as Australia, New Zealand and Vietnam.
Sweden's surging again:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN27E29W
STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Sweden, which has shunned lockdowns throughout the pandemic, registered 2,820 new coronavirus cases on Oct. 28, the highest since the pandemic began and the third record number in a matter of days, Health Agency statistics showed on Thursday.
In Western Washington state, as of a couple days ago, the reproduction rate, r, was 1.34...Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
So, not-good.
Dado you are correct that the article did not discuss the Spanish flu, but I thought it was common knowledge that it was killing people of all ages left and right back in the day.
A customer came into the office today and as he works at a healthcare facility one of my coworkers was asking him about his experience with covid. He said he had it and his only symptom was a headache for 3 days. He said there were numerous deaths at the facility, one person in his 70's and the rest in their 80's or older. He said all the fatalities were not only old but had other medical conditions. He said the vast majority were morbidly obese. They had numerous survivors as well including a woman in her 90's. He was praising Sweden's approach of protecting the vulnerable and letting younger people go about their lives.
FFS
Yes, I have "attended" a few really cool events online--a couple of historical "walking tours" and an author event. I agree that it does make learning more accessible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
We don't seem to be protecting our "vulnerable" very well, do we?
Neither did Sweden! That's why I don't care if someone somewhere is something (perhaps the janitor) in a healthcare facility, they are spewing ideology (and truthfully propaganda) when they praise Sweden's approach for protecting the vulnerable. Because there IS NO such approach. Sweden failed to protect the vulnerable. Unless we start calling idle hopes approaches, yes Trump had "idle hopes" to improve the healthcare system, he had zero actual plans. Sweden had "idle hopes" to protect the vulnerable. So unless one knows of any plans Sweden has since adopted that successfully protect the vulnerable (hey actual news I'll listen to), it doesn't even speak of anyone's expertise when they start talking of this, it only speaks of how deeply they have fallen for right wing propaganda.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
Meanwhile we keep reifying how people are disposable at a certain age (just for clarity I am not talking end of life issues, those are indeed difficult, I'm talking pandemic) or if they weight too much or whatever again and again and again when this nonsense is spewed, as if it made for a good society. Ugh I wish I didn't have to share a society with people who believe that!
Part of the problem is many of the vulnerable do not follow advisories and stay home. They get restless and go recreational shopping, out to eat in restaurants, host card parties, attend family gatherings, etc. You watch we will have a bunch of outbreaks after Thanksgiving and Christmas because government cannot really police family holiday gatherings in a free society, only in a police state. And for weeks I have seen stories planted in the news by airlines about how good air is on planes because they want the holiday travel business. Even if the air were perfect it is a bad idea to fly from one part of the country or world to another carrying pathogens in people's lungs.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
This is perhaps the most extreme version of ‘blame the victim’ I’ve ever seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
I’m going to grudgingly have to sort of agree with Yppej here. Among the various circles I belong to (church, diving, etc.), there are plenty of people who say their vulnerable relatives will NOT stay home. Or those who live with the very vulnerable will not stay home. 20-somethings with respiratory issues who are gathering with friends multiple times a week. Elderly folks with all sorts of health conditions who meet in each other’s homes a lot. They keep going out shopping, refusing all offers of help. Hour long wanders through Walmart or Target, not quick trips.
Here the private gatherings seem to be the source of a lot of spread.
It would certainly help if our feckless leadership weren't loudly spreading mixed messages. They're really not even mixed, at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
I’m in IL, a Dem stronghold. The gov and the public health authorities are pretty much screaming at people to stay home. Private gatherings limited to 6 people max. People are doing what they want to do, unless you want people to report on their neighbors and get the police involved. If people won’t listen to their relatives pleading with them to stay home, they’re pretty much a lost cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
Agreed. The governor can’t make private individuals curb their behavior. The only power he has is to control dining and entertainment gathering places. So the small restaurant owners are pretty much dying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
As an aside, it was interesting to me to see two physicians I know traveling. On airplanes. To other states. Maybe those states were taking immigrant vacationers? These were pleasure trips. I don’t know I didn’t research it that closely but let’s just say I went hmmmmm.
But laws! more laws! stronger laws! Yeah that’s the ticket, not.
In some instances, YES!Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
One thing about circles - you should only be part of one circle. If you are part of several circles, and others do the same, then no circle is that safe.