I think that was the sole intent of the legislation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoebird
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I think that was the sole intent of the legislation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoebird
Or bending women to men's will--a popular sport for many. Really, it's all about control.Quote:
Originally Posted by creaker
my long response wasnt clear in it's first section.
There are generally three designations when we are talking about both people involved, and only one that is relevant to governance -- an individual's legal designation.
So, the three elements in consideration are: 1. personal philosophical; 2. scientific information regarding viability; and 3. legal designation.
It is the legal designation that is quibbled about based on 1 and 2. This legal designation determines when the unborn child becomes a citizen with rights, responsibilities, and protections.
The third aspect, the reality is that there are two people involved about whom we are speaking WHEN the unborn child has a legal designation -- not personal, philosophical, and not even the technological advances that allow for viability.
But, the other person in the equation has full legal designation. The woman is fully designated and has the full rights, responsibilites, and protections.
And those rights include the ability to take responsibility via birth control, continuing a pregnancy, or choosing not to.
Extending identity politics to the internal organ level does seem a bit extreme.Quote:
Originally Posted by alan
Everyone has the right to their opinion, however if you read through the thread a popular opinion of the women who posted they felt like the law was meant to shame, humiliate and educate stupid women who didn't know enough to realize they were carrying a fetus. You can argue until the end of the world, but the fact of the matter is women were talking how they felt, as many have experienced pregnancy, pregnancy scares, decisions to raise children alone with no help from the sperm donor and some even opted for termination. Sometimes the man was involved in these situations, but sometimes they walked away or did not care. It happens. A woman cannot walk away. A few make the decision to give a baby up for adoption, but still it involves carrying the child to term and going through the birthing process.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
Like if I said something about how a black young man feels when someone crosses the street when he is walking down minding his own business, or how someone who might possibly be middle eastern who is pulled out of an airplane line and there luggage rifled through, or someone of color who is stopped because a robbery was close by and just by the color of their skin they are "suspicious". My empathy only goes so far because none of these things happen to me.
Of course I can understand how they might feel, and how people feel who are opposed to abortion or believe in a certain god, but unless you walk in someone's shoes you really don't truly know.
Just another thought,
men can stop abortion. They can not have sex unless they have protection, and if it fails they can vow to raise the child themselves if need be. They can abstain until they are married and only have sex when the intent is to produce offspring.
Men have the power if they want it. Maybe that is who this whole campaign to stop abortion should be directed to.
+1000Quote:
Originally Posted by flowerseverywhere
Here is a slightly different take on the issue:
"Be of good cheer. The demographics are favorable. That is, the intellectual liberals are not reproducing themselves, while the homeschooler population is growing. A long time ago David Riesman characterized Western nations as those with “incipient population decline.” Actually, though, that holds for just about everyone. The wealthy Muslim nations aren’t expanding. Their per capita income rates are really low, and if they rise the fertility rate drops. The population bomb has hit them and over time it will be more and more difficult to support an aging population that lives longer.
Of course civilizations die for reasons other than lack of population growth. Western cultural weapons of mass destruction work on the West as well as the Middle East. The culture that many of use grew up in has eroded terribly, and is not being transmitted to the next generation through the public schools. The notions that freedom is important, that government ought to be limited, that self government is preferable as well as cheap – these are not being transmitted. Note the health care debate. The idea of freedom and responsibility doesn’t seem to enter it.
But the home school population is growing, and for the most part they do pass along the values that made America what it was.
It is not yet time to give up."
Dr. Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D.
March 8, 2012
Best,
Rodger
Rodger, I am confused! Please say more about your post...
Sounds like Pat Buchanan's stuff, poorly paraphrased. European values in decline, sky is falling, etc.