And let me reiterate, property destruction is in no way comparable to the loss of life. We have institutionalIzard murder of black man in our country. I have no right to criticize anyone who is acting out against property when we’re killing them.
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And let me reiterate, property destruction is in no way comparable to the loss of life. We have institutionalIzard murder of black man in our country. I have no right to criticize anyone who is acting out against property when we’re killing them.
Apparently law enforcement harming protestors has a very long history in the US. Longer even than the history of the US as a country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston...re?wprov=sfti1
Huh. I live here, with my face glued to the TV and newspapers here, and I haven't heard that that's a for-sure...Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
While we (*checks watch*) still live with a rule of law, charges lodged against defendants must be proved in court or those people do not get convicted. "Murder 1" may be a satisfying charge to issue in this heinous/inexcusable/terrible/pick your adjective death. But if the state cannot prove that Derek Chauvin set out to murder Floyd specifically, they don't get a Murder 1 conviction and Chauvin walks out the courtroom doors. The state will charge what they believe they can prosecute. It may not be the punishment some would like to see but it's what's available right now. It's what was done in Mohamed Noor's case last year in the shooting of Justine Ruszczyk and it worked at a time when convicting cops is a rare thing.
I expect that, when the state believes they have enough evidence to try and, presumably, convict the other three (ex-)officers, they will arrest and charge them. I am sure Governor Walz and Attorney General Ellison are quite aware of possible public reactions should they overreach for a conviction and fail to get it. Better to set realistic expectations than talk loudly and reach far -- and do little or nothing.
Rob, you do know that at least two or three members of this forum live in Minneapolis/St. Paul or have loved ones who live here? What we've gone through over the last week is bad enough. Aside from the damage caused by watching someone die in front of you for no good reason, the worst damage in the rioting here affected neighborhoods full of people who already were teetering on the edge of the American economy. Many people, of all colors, are hurting, undeservedly. Maybe I'm reading this wrong -- I certainly hope so -- but you seem to be quite okay with a violent response to acquittal. Is that so?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
SteveinMN, no, I am NOT OK with such. Such is not of my seeking. I only posted this because I'm afraid it might happen. Just like with our 8 to 5 curfew here, I worry a great deal for those in the infamous 85006 still employed getting off work after 8 PM. I worry one of my neighbors may be murdered by the Phoenix Police for no reason. Just like I worry for Minneapolis (and ofher cities such as Milwaukie, Baltimore, Atlanta, Houston, Chicago) doing a great deal more burning.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinMN
No happiness comes to me from any of those thoughts. It's just the reality of America. Rob
Here you can be out after the curfew if you are going to or from work or for a medical related reason. Many people will end up with anxiety or PTSD living with this. My sister is much older and lived through the Milwaukee riots in 1968. Terrifying and not fun.
If I were a POC I’d be doing anything I could to make sure I didn’t have to be out after the curfew. Because doing so would risk winding up dead. As a middle aged white dude, not so much worry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry
It's too bad our major cities are so often highly segregated. Bystanders were pleading with Chauvin to stop, but there was little they could do. I have wondered what would have happened if I had been walking by and tried to intervene. I would probably have been arrested for interfering with a police officer, but I doubt they would have killed me too since I am middle-aged, middle class, female and white.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
Bingo! This is ecactly why I live in so much fear for my Hispanic neighbors. Phoenix really is a tinder box ready to ignite and become Minneapolis in the Sonoran Desert at the first illegal.misstep by police - and the Phoenix Police have historically had no problems routinely and ostentatiously bteaking the law/engaging in brutality. It's just a question of when here.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
Thank you, Rob. I understand that such a violent reaction may come but I cannot imagine any mentally-healthy person wanting to see it.
Maybe this past week or so is the Stonewall of the BIPOC (why are B and I included when they already should be part of POC?) situation. I would like to think that there could be an event that could galvanize real change. But after watching a kid shoot up an elementary school and kill two dozen people and seeing about zero change in any of the factors connected to that event, I will believe such change when I see it.
Why the hell is "Don't constrict your prisoner's airway for ten minutes" (or at all, preferably) apparently not a given for law enforcement? Even now!
https://www.insider.com/video-seattl...to-neck-2020-5
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...me-top-story-1
This article details the sad instance of a black man, shot In St Louis Monday night and lying in his own blood, dying, while bystanders stand around and film it. In this instance there are many bad actors but at this very moment I am most disgusted with Facebook for removing the video. I’m not sure why some videos of some black men dying in a public place are OK on FB but others are not.
I think in our current situation it is very bad form for me to provide a “but what about this “ commentary, and that’s not necessarily what I’m doing because thugs are thugs, criminals are criminals, and shooters are going to kill people that’s just the way it is.
But Facebook, they’re going to decide which ones violate their code? I guess that’s cause those decisions will always be ad hoc, and shooting from the hip.
It is hard to be a consistent censor.
SteveinMN - I very much respect your investment in your community. I share this with you - we may have different takes and believe in different courses of action from time to time - but we are both invested in our communities. Kudos to us both as many Americans don't seem to share this investment with us. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by SteveinMN
Something just dawned on me, IL. Though we don't often agree and bicker from time to time - I do respect your investment in your community, too. I haven't completely followed your story so I am not sure if you are still in St. Louis or not - if not, I respect your investment in it while there. RobQuote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
rob. Indeed I invest much in my St. Louis urban core community, a zip code with a murder rate higher than most areas in the world. When I lookEd for a weekend house that became our Hermann house, I wanted a community that had strong social organizations that I could join. We have not moved to Hermann yet however.
I do. Those people did nothing to them. Property destruction is in no way congruent to human life!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammy
My bfs neighborhood seemed to have been targeted for really no reason but bullying social media behavior. It's like a game I played as a teenager where I would call a random number and say "you have won 100 free prank calls".
I mean one could have hoped but none could have thought such a protest at this time would be entirely without looting etc.. Nor was it something organic that grew out of that neighborhood, it was social media. It's not wealthy, it's working to some middle class, it's not even mostly white, it's more Hispanic than white, largely illegals. It's a bunch of barely making it, even back a few months ago in the good times, businesses and a few large chains, only the latter will survive. I mean much was probably doomed to covid anyway, so it's not all this. In a place where they have been trying to revive business forever with only a few hanging on businesses. Meanwhile bf and his mom afraid they might have to flee (breaking curfew and frankly social distancing we have maintained among the elderly for months at this point - to flee to my apartment haha). Well it passed, there was looting. And that was the day I find out through work a doctors office was broken into.
Good news!!!! Derek Chauvin has now had his charge upgraded to 2nd degree murder and the other three former officers have been charged too! This journey is nowhere near over but today America accelerates onto the expressway of this journey. Rob
Defunding? Interesting idea. This would take away from their numbers but I can't see how it would force them into no bs allowed full no excuses compliance with the law. America will no longer accept anything less. But it's still an interesting idea. How do you propose it would work/what would the upsides be? RobQuote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
Much of it just an effort to switch funding to other priorities than police especially given that the police budget is often the ONLY one not being cut (and sometimes increased) due to covid/economic crisis driven budget cuts (which is a reason one can trivialize property damage and in some sense it is, but one might imagine it repairable, and they might be wrong, as no city or state money actually exists to repair the damage if it is to public property, say a municipal bus, or may anytime in the foreseeable future - so we were already in deep, we're now in deeper).
Anyway defund the police, not all of it is absolute, that there will be NO police, some people want that, but I think much of it is just a call to switch some of the police funding to social services.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...olice-1007254/
Dude. We're still just trying to get out of the parking lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
Something positive for once. Apparently with these new charges, the streets of America were calmer last night. Good to see at least a temporary reprieve. I doubt it's over, meaning the burning, looting, and rioting - but I'm sure grateful for any temporary break there can be. Rob
Nevada arrested some Boogaloo Boys yesterday. It's a start (and I'm sure, just the tip of the lily-white iceberg).Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
Would you call it a vast right wing conspiracy?Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneV2.0
I don't see them in my org chart, but mine is a couple years out of date.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
Only in their minds. But they are enough of a nuisance that it gives cover to president sad sack's tying protestors, rioters, and looters all into one big fictitious group for people inclined to want to believe his lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
And the good news in my area is, in addition to concrete proposals for reforms, NO spike in corona cases 2 weeks after large protests. Our numbers continue to trend downwards. Most protesters were young and I think that is a factor in their favor. It turns out the nervous nellies were wrong. Trump draws an older crowd so the results of his Oklahoma rally may differ. Time will tell.
you can only hope! Let the ‘rona kill off the old Trumpsters, That’s one way to defeat himQuote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
That's okay. I mean, with the pandemic going on, almost everyone would feel safe staying at home. I have no problems in doing that because you can still find some ways to keep yourself busy in the comfort of your home. As for me, I just to go to a certain site and play games in there for hours. This is so much better compared to going out and risking the spread of the virus to your family.
Well Rob you didn't protest but the verdict delivered justice anyways.
I have been avoiding controversy here lately in light of our losing really great members. All I'm going to say is that I am very grateful for the verdict. RibQuote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Should have been Rob above. Rob
I am too Rob.
I think in this case it seems to be the right verdict.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmethesimplelife
As if there aren't enough policing issues, I saw on the news today that defective handguns, banned by the Canadian military because they fire without the trigger being pulled, are in use in numerous US police departments.
Which ones?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
I heard Canada is in the process of replacing the Browning Hi Powers that have been standard issue since the Second World War.
This is what I’ve heard, as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDAHL
Sig sauer is the weapon in question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
I carried a Sig Sauer for several years back in the 90's before switching over to a Glock. What is the problem with the Sig?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Alan, it fires without the trigger being pulled.
https://www.wcvb.com/article/a-handg...0the%20company.
You have to scroll up to read the whole article.