Apparently with no indoor service at bars and restaurants, people are heading to downtown Chicago hotels to party. Hotels are having a hard time policing it. They don’t have the security personnel they did before the pandemic.
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Apparently with no indoor service at bars and restaurants, people are heading to downtown Chicago hotels to party. Hotels are having a hard time policing it. They don’t have the security personnel they did before the pandemic.
Prohibitions don't work. What does is advocacy and persuasion. Millions from Capone to the Kennedys got around Prohibition, but Mothers Against Drunk Driving changed our culture forever by stigmatizing driving under the influence.
I wonder what the covid response would be if instead of government ordering us around there were PSAs featuring individuals and families affected by covid, and we were allowed to individualize our response based on our circumstances.
Tell me I can or can't do something and like any freedom loving person I am extremely resentful.
Look at our failed war on drugs and the opioid epidemic if you think you can outlaw a medical problem out of existence.
I don't envy your boss.Quote:
Tell me I can or can't do something and like any freedom loving person I am extremely resentful.
(most of us do or don't do things as we are told all the time, maybe solely for a paycheck, maybe because it makes practical things work, like not deciding red lights mean go and green lights mean stop because we don't like being told otherwise, and btw they can ticket you for it)
Indoor bars have been illegal here the whole time except for a brief period that led to a crazy covid surge, now I'm certain some may flaunt the laws, but also there seems a very direct correlation between opening up bars and covid surges. I bet in the long run it works a lot better to keep the most risky activities closed the whole time, and everyone says bars are a most risky activity, than to open everything, surge, and retreat, open everything, surge and retreat. I really think places that have been stricter on the more risky activities are playing the long game here in the hopes of not being faced with a choice of "close everything or watch hospitals get overwhelmed", but we'll see, there's a lot of covid around and spreading.
I keep thinking of Londoners during the war turning all their lights on because "You can't tell me what to do!" What a bunch of entitled brats we are.
PSAs aren't a bad idea, but because people here are clearly a bunch of entitled brats, some negative reinforcement is often necessary.
As I've said before, we have to do things we don't like all the time (mandatory insurance, anyone?)--it's the price one pays to live in a society where yours is not the only viewpoint.
People here in IL are clearly partying at home.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
Yeah, my husband's family had to cancel their reunion because of Covid, not safe. . .
I've actually seen some of those. Maybe they need to be broadcast during Faux Snooze or redneck reality shows so more will see them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
I've seen them, too. They seem to be inspired by those vaccine ads with the poor grandmother becoming the Big Bad Wolf--in this version, young folks are partying and then hug the 60'ish grandma and you just know she's going to get it.
Doesn't work for me, but maybe others find it useful. I'm not the target audience cause I'm the grandma in both ads.
So that would that work for you? Reading Tammy's experiences on the forum doesn't seemed to have made a difference to you, so I'm wondering why you bring up a possible solution that still doesn't seem to effect you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
I don’t think any sort of PSA is likely to work. My mom’s hometown in western Kansas population 1200 has surging case numbers. 67 confirmed infections and little testing. And is shipping everyone who needs a hospital hundreds of miles away by helicopter. They had a death this week and the church funeral will be tomorrow, open to anyone.
And anyway who is more free now: a citizen of New Zealand where they have no covid, or a citizen of the most lenient state in the U.S. whatever that is, maybe a Dakota, where masks were never mandated nor any shutdowns enforced. It's obvious. The citizen of New Zealand is going about NORMAL life without care with all the infinite freedom that implies. And the sensible citizen of whatever state where cases are likely exploding is probably haunted by caution, even whatever risks they decide might be worth taking, they are never unaware there is a risk, even if they are in a lower risk group, for most it's still probably best not to get covid than to get it, and then visiting with anyone in a higher risk group is a bad idea. So their freedom is inevitably curtailed to at least some degree by sensible precaution. Meanwhile the citizen of New Zealand is in actuality free to go about life.Quote:
I keep thinking of Londoners during the war turning all their lights on because "You can't tell me what to do!" What a bunch of entitled brats we are.
That's what a serious plan, decent government, serious social cooperation, serious but limited shutdown etc. could achieve. But it entails a limited period of being told what you can and can't do (the definition of freedom of a 12 year old), as opposed to infinite amount of time being constrained by an endless virus. Mind you I don't think it's the fault of U.S. citizens we don't have that, yea sure some of them suck and will beat up an employee requiring a mask, yea some suck, but this actually requires good government not just good citizens, and we certainly didn't have it under Trump, and it's hard to come by in most of the west it seems. Our governments have failed us.
There have been stories on the news about people losing family members. Especially heartbreaking when they are young and healthy.
Well said, ApatheticNoMore.
And what about the poor health care workers, who are basically sitting ducks, reusing masks and knee-deep in infection, day after day.
The latest is that staff is so decimated, hospitals are drafting employees infected with COVID to work with COVID patients. theoretically, those infected would be immune to further infection. But do we know that for sure? (Can you imagine dragging your exhausted self to work every day as a nurse?) And all because we have a spoiled child president and a percentage of citizenry that believes that this is either a hoax or overblown and the 240,000+ deaths are explainable as something else.
IL is a Democratic stronghold. Masks have been mandated for months now. The good little Democrats keep having private gatherings and the plague keeps spreading.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore
PSAs are just more media blathering.Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
Either you take your health seriously enough to take precautions, or you dont.
Arguably PSAs and warnings on cigarette packages had some impact on smoking.
Look, I get it that all media outlets need to be used to spread whatever message must be spread.But we didn’t get anti smoking 24/7 on news although certainly we got that message often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
But if there are those who have not heard of
corona virus and its implications by now, a PSA on someone’s tv or radio station won’t help them.
I suspect part of the problem is that a sizeable portion of the population prefers media outlets that lead them to believe this is all some sort of authoritarian hoax.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
I don't think states much less cities can solve this. Local messaging to the extent it exists here has been *bad* though.
I kind of get how everyone now is caught in a truly impossible situation. My mental health is terrible for various reasons including the life I'm living under covid (hopefully that's not TOO obvious :cool: ,I mostly mean depressed).
So at a certain point people are just screw it, as the prevention is almost worse than the disease. Only the disease is not good. I say that but the only person I have seen inside since March is my bf, eh and the doctor, and the store. I realize how badly I need to just go over to my mom's house and chill sometimes just to feel like myself again (mom won't live forever, but she is plenty alive now, but @#$# covid and I can't hang indoors or close, moms a happy person since she's long done with caretaking). So it becomes how much more of this can I even take. Working from home since March, they were going to bring us back to the office some days a week, so being that I'm totally resigned to covid ever going away at this point, I dutifully went wearing a mask all day (cloth as lets be real, I can do an hour in an N95 but not all day) for a few days. But that plan has been put on hold, so back to work from home.
Yppej,
what would get you to wear a mask anytime you are in a public building, around people you don’t live with, or outside but likely to be close to others? Anything?
Why do you think she doesnt wear a mask in the situations you describe?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken lady
You are overstating the “other side’s” POV.Quote:
Originally Posted by bae
It aint that simple.
True. It may just be that they're major jerks like this guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gop-c...3&guccounter=1
Covid case in boyfriends office again (last one was a few months ago, there was also a 3rd one in just the office building), here we go again. Oh they wear masks, all day. So covid tests and quarantining from bf again.
Perhaps she does. Perhaps the conditions that get her to wear a mask have already occurred.
based on yppej’s posts I don’t think the answer is “hearing from multiple mainstream sources that masks are a good idea”
I have a coworker who wears her mask because it is required. But as soon as the kids leave, she takes it off because she is “working alone”. I now leave work by the (no alarm) fire exit because I am not interested in walking through the reception space she has been breathing freely in for as much as an hour. She does not meet my definition of wearing a mask in a public building, but I get the impression Yppej would find her behavior totally fine.
Wear a work of art:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZGRml6l37Y
In May and June, we were allowed to take off our masks when working alone in an office with the door closed. That’s when we thought it was primarily droplet transmission.
Now that we are seeing the airborne component those recommendations have changed.
One of the rough things about covid is that the recommendations change as we learn more.
Here is an example of the idea that masks will save us. A coworker has been pressured by his family to fly to Florida, pick up granny, and fly back with her to Massachusetts so she can attend all the family holiday gatherings. He thinks it is a bad idea. I think it is a bad idea. But hey, they will wear masks on the plane and he will get a covid test before returning to work so what could go wrong?
I think the reality is that masks are one of the tools that, if used properly, can reduce risk. If people think they are some type of panacea, they are of course mistaken, but that doesn't mean they don't have value.
It’s a ridiculous idea. Good luck to all in that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yppej
And this is why the rules need to be more than voluntary recommendations. Selfish assholes will ignore them and put their whole community at risk.
https://www.kansascity.com/news/coro...247141799.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1
Or maybe parents could exercise parental discretion and tell their little darlings NO. No little darling. You are not going to be able to have a homecoming dance in your senior year of high school. Yes it is tragic and probably something you will never get over and possibly it is the worst thing the world is ever known but yeah. No dance for you.
The Biden voters and Black Lives Matter folks in my neighborhood were all over the city park playground with their privileged littke tykes when they weren’t supposed to be. There was a lot of justification of trick-or-treating in my neighborhood which was deemed a huge success. I know who they voted for because I know what signs they have in the yard.
There is not even remotely enough law-enforcement personnel to take these people onBesides remember how special they are they are they intelligent Sia who vote for Biden. They know best.
If you think it’s only Maga hat wears ignoring the health department’s recommendations, think again.
Meanwhile, my neighbors across the street in Hermann were some of the earlier cases in that rural county and they were absolutely locked down with all of their girls for weeks on end. They were so incredibly careful. Those kids did not go anywhere. Their friends came to their yard and talked to them from out in the street. They are popular girls and they have a lot of friends.
One lesson I take away from that is you can be as careful as shit and still catch the virus.
But by all means JP, please continue to post your screeds about dumb flyover country people because we are quite stupid when compared to you people on the West Coast.
Thank you, Iris.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
Nancy Pelosi, who illegally had her hair colored, while not wearing a mask, when salons were supposed to be closed, is an example of West Coast noncompliance.
I don’t think any one state holds the record for risky behavior. There’s people everywhere not wearing masks and being careful. We are back to staying home because it’s too cold to be outside long and the virus is surging. We have not went anywhere with crowds. The problem with teens is that you can’t always control what they do no matter how hard you try.
By all means please post articles about parents exercising reponsible discretion then. I realize that article is just one group of stupid effs who failed to exercise discretion. And it's not just midwestern folks. The jackass state rep on Staten Island who is planning a mega-thanksgiving at his home is just as much of an ass. Hopefully his elderly relatives are smart enough to decline the invite. All of these stories combined make clear to me that there are just a whole lot of "but muh freedumb" people out there who won't do the right thing unless there are penalties. How many daily cases and deaths will it take before people realize that their actions are killing people? We're already pushing 200k new cases per day. Will it take 300k? 500k? A million americans a day getting infected before these jerks realize, and care, that their actions are literally killing people? Sadly even that number probably wouldn't impress them, even though at that point we'd have to be airlifting patients halfway across the country to find an empty hospital bed if there was even one available anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by iris lilies
And no, I don't think people in flyover country are stupid. I just think they've bought into trump's stupid BS and put themselves needlessly at risk. Why anyone would follow this administration's covid anything is surprising since 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue probably has one of the highest infection rates of anywhere in the country.
Dude, IL as blue as NY or CA. Few people here have “bought into Trump’s stupid BS.” Maybe in the rural areas. Cases out the arse here. Dem gov who is threatening another lockdown. Chicago, too. I rarely see anyone without a mask at the store.
It’s the damned private gatherings.
And restaurants/bars being too open. But yeah, it's people getting together indoors without masks. Like the stupid parents hosting a homecoming dance in a restaurant. Like the stupid ass state rep on Staten Island in blue state NY who plans to have a big superspreader thanksgiving at his home.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradd
I think we're actually in agreement here. I haven't spent any time indoors with anyone other than SO since this began. And certainly not without a mask. And I don't plan to any time soon. When the movers were doing their thing I insisted that SO and I stay outside as much as possible and we had all the windows wide open until an hour after they left. Who knows. Maybe our numbers are only good because we have nice weather here all summer so people can easily get together outside. If that's the case and we have a cold, wet winter then maybe our numbers will go through the roof in the next few months. I don't know.
You seem to be focusing on the big private gatherings. But the majority aren’t that way. I keep hearing on the radio and FB of people getting the plague after being exposed at smallish private gatherings, say under 10 people or so. But no masks.
The restaurants/bars here had no more than 50% capacity for indoor service. The state is divided into regions and indoor service was shut down at certain times when numbers went too high. All indoor bar/restaurant service has been shut down now for at least the past week. Outdoor only now, although that won’t last well with Midwestern winter weather.